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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 26, 2019, 11:45am
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
*I really liked the way the L hustled over to the sideline/endline corner area in order to put in the needed "officiating work", instead of hanging out in the "no-where land" and standing under the basket and not taking a definite position. I hate it when my L does not complete the rotation and just stands under the rim area
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 26, 2019, 12:37pm
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 06:21am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Great learning clip JRut.

Couple things on Lead: you should typically never run across the lane as Lead, especially at the High School level. At the HS level refs are slower to pick up on rotations and you might leave the crew unbalanced which is worse overall than the advantage you gain from Lead being able to pick up that play across the paint more quickly. Walk with a steady and brisk pace refereeing over your shoulder until you get all the way across the lane and then open up to accept the action in front of you. This will let the Slot official know when you are on ball and they can move on to another matchup. That said, I'm actually ok in this specific instance that the Lead got over there quickly. Multiple defender doubleteams like that are very difficult for one referee (the Slot) to officiate and the Lead coming over quickly receives that pressure.

Slot positioning. The Old Trail moves to new Slot and goes very low, in fact too low. I'm all in favor of the Slot going underneath players on the wing but we mustn't go too low. We need to anticipate not just the next play but also the play after that which is often times an entry pass to the post. Pause the video at 10 seconds -- if the defender was behind the post player on ball side and there was an entry pass the Slot would have have a closed look on that defender. I would much prefer the Slot to be straddling the coaches box line on the near sideline which is 3-4 feet from where the referee ends up. Straddling that line allows the referee perfect position on the wing player and defender should the ball make it there and also leaves him more open to referee a post entry pass.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 09:30am
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Great learning clip JRut.
I just embedded the clip. I did not post this on YouTube. I believe this is from Freddy directly.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 10:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Great learning clip JRut.

Couple things on Lead: you should typically never run across the lane as Lead, especially at the High School level. At the HS level refs are slower to pick up on rotations and you might leave the crew unbalanced which is worse overall than the advantage you gain from Lead being able to pick up that play across the paint more quickly. Walk with a steady and brisk pace refereeing over your shoulder until you get all the way across the lane and then open up to accept the action in front of you. This will let the Slot official know when you are on ball and they can move on to another matchup. That said, I'm actually ok in this specific instance that the Lead got over there quickly. Multiple defender doubleteams like that are very difficult for one referee (the Slot) to officiate and the Lead coming over quickly receives that pressure.

Slot positioning. The Old Trail moves to new Slot and goes very low, in fact too low. I'm all in favor of the Slot going underneath players on the wing but we mustn't go too low. We need to anticipate not just the next play but also the play after that which is often times an entry pass to the post. Pause the video at 10 seconds -- if the defender was behind the post player on ball side and there was an entry pass the Slot would have have a closed look on that defender. I would much prefer the Slot to be straddling the coaches box line on the near sideline which is 3-4 feet from where the referee ends up. Straddling that line allows the referee perfect position on the wing player and defender should the ball make it there and also leaves him more open to referee a post entry pass.
I think the lead was way too late to start moving, forcing him to run. Once he was late, he had to get over there as he really needed to be there to cover the play that was happening.

On the slot, I see why he ended up there. The closest competitive matchup was on the far lane line with the next competitive matchups were on the far side of the court outside the 3-point arc (with the ball being covered by the trail and the other off-ball matchups covered by the lead). If he had stopped at the FT line, he would have been straight-lined to pretty much anything worth looking at and staying high wouldn't have fixed it. So, he went under. Just as he got to a reasonable spot, the players shifted, taking away is open look he had and driving him lower still. It was a tough spot to be in and he maintained an open look at the expense of getting a bit too low. Better would been to reverse at 5 seconds and get back to the FT line as that angle opened back up.

Once the skip pass occurs, the L is slow to react. I'd like to see the L move immediately to closedown when the skip pass is thrown. The L doesn't move until after the skip pass is caught and a new post is formed on the opposite side of the lane. If there was an immediate entry into the post, he couldn't get there to see it. He needs to be rotating across as the post matchup moves across the lane, not after they get there and are set up to receive the entry pass.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 01:15pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 11:21am
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Yes, the Lead is definitely late in reacting to the skip pass. Also don't like him flat to the end line. I'm a staggered stance/45 degree angle proponent for the Lead.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 11:51am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Yes, the Lead is definitely late in reacting to the skip pass. Also don't like him flat to the end line. I'm a staggered stance/45 degree angle proponent for the Lead.
*well at least he's not just standing under the basket in ''no man's land'' which is a refreshing break from what I've had to contend with from some folks doing..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 27, 2019, 06:41pm
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The lead IMO moved too fast. He did not anticipate or close down to make the rotation. But at least he rotated.

The Center was too low before that pass. I would have had no issues him moving there if the pass came in and was guarded close, but not in that situation.

Neither is a big deal. At least there is an understanding of the situation.

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Old Wed Oct 02, 2019, 11:25am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
At one of the camps I went to this summer and in my 3-person fall league games, I got feedback that I was going too low in the Trail and Center positions.
Question: How many clinicians did you hear this feedback from? One? Two? The entire staff?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 02, 2019, 03:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
At one of the camps I went to this summer and in my 3-person fall league games, I got feedback that I was going too low in the Trail and Center positions. This often happens when I come into the position from transition and close down, or if I have already stepped down to stay connected to a play, and I close down.

What do you do to ensure the right balance between an aggressive mindset of staying connected to plays and being in a good position (between the 28' mark and the 3-point arc as Trail; within the free-throw circle as Center)? I'm trying to control my strides so I stop at the 28' mark as Trail and at the free-throw line extended as C, but there are times that I overshoot the mark. Are there any suggestions y'all have?

Thank you!
I am late to this thread, but my guess is these clinicians think you should go to a spot and stay there, which is just complete nonsense.

We still teach a "home base" for T/C officials, but we want them to go where they aren't straightlined. T on the sideline, C on the sideline -- and working low is typically better than coming over the top.

tl;dr - Get better clinicians at the HS camps.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 02, 2019, 04:17pm
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Sage Advice ...

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... we want them to go where they aren't straightlined.
For over forty years we've been taught to "move to improve".
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 02, 2019, 08:32pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Question: How many clinicians did you hear this feedback from? One? Two? The entire staff?
One guy at the fall game, who was the former rules interpreter for Board 134, and an older guy at a JV 3-person summer league staffed by Cardinal (Board 255). No college guys gave me any issues over my Center and Trail positioning, and for that matter, neither did anyone at Court Club Elite camp.


Rich, the nonsense about get to one spot and stay there was exactly what the guy at the Cardinal JV summer league said.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 02, 2019, 08:43pm
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Take this from someone that goes to many camps and teaches at camp. If you do not hear the same thing by multiple people, then it probably is not something you should automatically pay that much attention to. This is especially true when you hear things about positioning or philosophy. If the advice is solid, you would hear it multiple times from different people. You have to know when to hold onto something or when to throw it away.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 04, 2019, 09:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
One guy at the fall game, who was the former rules interpreter for Board 134, and an older guy at a JV 3-person summer league staffed by Cardinal (Board 255). No college guys gave me any issues over my Center and Trail positioning, and for that matter, neither did anyone at Court Club Elite camp.


Rich, the nonsense about get to one spot and stay there was exactly what the guy at the Cardinal JV summer league said.
No need to call out boards.....everybody knows you are in Board #12. Be respectful to your neighboring boards. We are all in this together. Not sure if #12 has social media policy but you need to be careful.
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Old Sat Oct 05, 2019, 06:49am
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Let's Be Careful Out There ...

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No need to call out boards.....everybody knows you are in Board #12. Be respectful to your neighboring boards. We are all in this together. Not sure if #12 has social media policy but you need to be careful.
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