Beckoned And/Or Comes Onto The Court ...

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A minor change, and in my opinion, only really relevant on a written exam.

Six years ago, if I were to charge a timeout for a coach to keep a star player in the game, the coach only being beckoned, and not actually coming onto the court, that would be the last game I would work in that gym.

Guess I am confused. So, you have an injured player and you beckon the coach. The coach refuses to come? Is that what you are saying? if so, beckon the trainer or any other school official (game management, principal attending, etc.) and yes, I would consider them to be bench personnel as far as this rule. Are you telling me that no one will come attend to the injured player? If that is the case, the coach/school will have far bigger problems than not wanting to burn a TO. Additionally, if a beckoned coach refuses to come, are you really ever going to want to work in that school again? I doubt it.

Also see case 3.3.6 Sit B

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Guess I am confused. So, you have an injured player and you beckon the coach. The coach refuses to come?

Official overestimates the injury in the name of safety, stops game and beckons coach. Kid immediately gets up, says "I'm good", and coach decides to stay on the bench. Think of it as a question on a written exam, from an exam six years ago.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Official overestimates the injury in the name of safety, stops game and beckons coach. Kid immediately gets up, says "I'm good", and coach decides to stay on the bench. Think of it as a question on a written exam, from an exam six years ago.

The and/or no longer applies in the rule, but the wording in the caseplay wasn't changed.

3.3.6 SITUATION B: A1 appears to be injured and an official properly halts play and the Team A coach rushes onto the court to check A1. However, A1 is OK and seems ready to play within a few seconds. RULING: A1 must be removed as the coach came onto the court. A1 may remain in the game if the coach does not come on the court and A1 is ready to play immediately. If the coach or other bench personnel have come onto the court, the player must be replaced. There is no set amount of time as to what is “immediately,” but it should not involve more than a few seconds and it must be without the coach, athletic trainer or doctor being beckoned and/or entering the court. The coach may also request a time-out to keep the player in the game provided the replacement interval for the substitution has not begun. (10-4-2)

Stupid NFHS.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Official overestimates the injury in the name of safety, stops game and beckons coach. Kid immediately gets up, says "I'm good", and coach decides to stay on the bench. Think of it as a question on a written exam, from an exam six years ago.

This sounds to me as if the official made the mistake in their overestimation. I am not going to penalize the coach/player in this case if the mistake was mine. Especially when you use the words "..immediately gets up.." Ref seems to have been waaaay overzealous in beckoning anyone.

[MattReferee]

Had a girls VAR game jus last night and “Star” player went down in her front court as defensive team rebounds and fast breaks up Court..she stays down as I was the “L” now “T” I stayed with her while she grabbed her leg and I looked down court to wait for 1 a held ball by offensive team,2 a rebound by her team 3 dead ball and I soon as I seen her team grab rebound I blew whistle. Ok my question is just then she popped up “her team” with position and I’m holding my hand open as STOP to coach and I ask her if she is ok and she replied yes. I let her stay in game ,was I wrong to do so ?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MattReferee

Had a girls VAR game jus last night and “Star” player went down in her front court as defensive team rebounds and fast breaks up Court..she stays down as I was the “L” now “T” I stayed with her while she grabbed her leg and I looked down court to wait for 1 a held ball by offensive team,2 a rebound by her team 3 dead ball and I soon as I seen her team grab rebound I blew whistle. Ok my question is just then she popped up “her team” with position and I’m holding my hand open as STOP to coach and I ask her if she is ok and she replied yes. I let her stay in game ,was I wrong to do so ?

I see nothing wrong with how you did it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MattReferee

Had a girls VAR game jus last night and “Star” player went down in her front court as defensive team rebounds and fast breaks up Court..she stays down as I was the “L” now “T” I stayed with her while she grabbed her leg and I looked down court to wait for 1 a held ball by offensive team,2 a rebound by her team 3 dead ball and I soon as I seen her team grab rebound I blew whistle.

We've been told (as recently as Sunday's meeting) to sound our whistle on the shot (no team control), the ball either goes in and we later go to run the endline, or we go to the alternating possession arrow. No chance for a rebound.

No rule reference, or casebook reference, just a local thing. Not sure how I feel about this. I need to give it more thought. Maybe a good topic for discussion.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We've been told (as recently as Sunday's meeting) to sound our whistle on the shot (no team control), the ball either goes in and we later go to run the endline, or we go to the alternating possession arrow. No chance for a rebound.

No rule reference, or casebook reference, just a local thing. Not sure how I feel about this. I need to give it more thought. Maybe a good topic for discussion.

It's not a local thing. It's actually the rule, but gets ignored by most (including me)

Rule: 5-8 ART. 2
Stops play:

a. Because of an injury as in 3-3-6, 3-3-7.

b. To confer with the scorer or timer.

c. Because of unusual delay in getting a dead ball live.

d. For any other situations or any emergency.

NOTE: When a player is injured as in Art. 2(a), the official may suspend play after the ball is dead or is in control of the injured player’s team or when the opponents complete a play. A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position. When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately stop play. "

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's not a local thing. It's actually the rule, but gets ignored by most (including me)

Rule: 5-8 ART. 2
Stops play:
a. Because of an injury as in 3-3-6, 3-3-7.
d. For any other situations or any emergency.
NOTE: When a player is injured as in Art. 2(a), the official may suspend play after the ball is dead or is in control of the injured player’s team or when the opponents complete a play. A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position. When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately stop play. "

Wow. Thanks Raymond. It's good thing that I didn't raise my hand and ask a critical question at Sunday's meeting. I would have left with egg on my face.

I no longer need to give it more thought. Thanks to Raymond, it's the correct way to stop play in such situations.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NOTE: When a player is injured as in Art. 2(a), the official may suspend play after the ball is dead or is in control of the injured player’s team or when the opponents complete a play. A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position. When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately stop play. [/I]"

The NCAA (at least W) rule is essentially the same, but it does not contain the underlined part of the note -- would we enforce it the same?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by bucky

Guess I am confused. So, you have an injured player and you beckon the coach. The coach refuses to come? Is that what you are saying? if so, beckon the trainer or any other school official (game management, principal attending, etc.) and yes, I would consider them to be bench personnel as far as this rule. Are you telling me that no one will come attend to the injured player? If that is the case, the coach/school will have far bigger problems than not wanting to burn a TO. Additionally, if a beckoned coach refuses to come, are you really ever going to want to work in that school again? I doubt it.

Also see case 3.3.6 Sit B

Try this one. (Though it may not happen to those of you who don't officiate games where country music is a part of warmup.)

A1 gets trucked on a loose ball play. Officials blow whistle to check player.

Player is curled up on floor. Coach A says "He'll be alright."

Player doesn't get up and officials beckon coach A.

Coach A stands on sideline says "Get up Rudy you are alright."

Parent from the stands (we can only assume is family member): "Rudy if you do not get up right now you will be sorry."

A1 (Rudy) pulls himself to his feet like Rocky on a 9 count and wobbles towards official mumbling I'm good.

Ahh poor Rudy, great teammate though . . .

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Though it may not happen to those of you who don't officiate games where country music is a part of warmup.

John Deere tractors take up the best spaces in the parking lot? Fans with John Deere caps spit tobacco into paper cups?

Been there, done that for the first, but not for the second.

Now sit right back and enjoy some foot tapping classic John Denver:

https://youtu.be/8Gx97BH5kKo

[Raymond]

I have had quite a few occasions where I've looked at the coach to come on the court for an injured player and the coach just stood there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I have had quite a few occasions where I've looked at the coach to come on the court for an injured player and the coach just stood there.

Been there, looked at that.

When I cautiously stop a game to check on a player and immediately see that he's alright and will be immediately ready to continue playing, I will give the coach a stop sign and say, "He's alright to play". Keeps me from having to explain why I could charge him with timeout to keep his player in the game, or sit his player for a tick. Also keeps me from having to explain why I stopped the game if the player wasn't really hurt.

I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on television. As an official I would just rather be safe than sorry.

[SNIPERBBB]

Why would you be automatically charging a coach the TO to keep a player in? You let them make the decision to take the TO or have the player sit a tick. Off the top of my head there is only has one situation where a TO is forced on the coach