Reaching out of your area

[ballgame99]

Last night I am C, not much going on in my PCA, last second shot at the end of the 3rd quarter, 3 point shot goes up just below the FT line extended, which just happened to be directly across the court from me and my line of sight. (IE I have a great angle). I take a glance at it. I see the defender CLEARLY foul the shooter across the arm. I KNOW this is a foul, but I also know this is not my call. I wait, expecting a whistle from the trail, shooter comes all the way down, no whistle from Trail... I blow. Neither coach says a word, not even a groan from the crowd. Everyone saw this foul. Coach of the shooter actually commented that this was a great call (because he knew it wasn't my call to make but I did anyway).

Needless to say my partner wasn't happy.

When is it appropriate to reach out of your area? Does it have to be a flagrant or technical foul situation? Am I the worst partner ever? I've always read on here that you don't come that far out of your PCA unless it is a "crew saver". I felt like this fit the bill.

[JRutledge]

You can reach out of your area if you are right and it is rare. But you better be right.

What did your partner say? Did he think it was clearly a foul? Did he think it was marginal or not a foul at all?

Also, that is a rather long way to get a foul from the C. So it has to be very accurate or in transition on some level. I am not sure what you described either was a crew saving call.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can reach out of your area if you are right and it is rare. But you better be right.

Agree. From my pregame: Stay in your primary. Something must be very obvious to come out of your primary. If something is there that really needs to be called, call it. Be late. Be right. Be needed.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not sure what you described either was a crew saving call.

Peace

I am not sure I agree with that. If it ends up being a 2 or 3 point game in the wrong direction, this no-call would've had an impact on the game. We can agree to disagree though. I would absolutely agree with the rest of what you said. That is a LONG way across the court.

[jeremy341a]

IMO Primary coverage area does not equal exclusive coverage area. I have no problem if you come and get it out of my area bc I know you're not doing that unless you are 100% certain. Isn't getting it right more important that someone only fishing in their own pond? It is to me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I am not sure I agree with that. If it ends up being a 2 or 3 point game in the wrong direction, this no-call would've had an impact on the game. We can agree to disagree though. I would absolutely agree with the rest of what you said. That is a LONG way across the court.

But what if the partner felt there was a flop or the contact was exaggerated by the shooter (they tend to do that)? What if he saw the entire play and felt it was not something to be called? That is why I asked what did his partner say? And being that it is a long way, he has to be right. That means that the Lead possibly passed on that foul as well. So now two officials passed on this potentially and you came in to make that call. Just saying, be careful with that. Then if he passed on the foul, that is on him, not you. If you are wrong, then it is on you and not him.

Peace

[UNIgiantslayers]

I can get behind that. I'd be more interested in what the video showed. If it showed I was right, I would call that a crew saver if it awards a team at (a possible) 3 points. If not, I'm fishing outside of my pond. Either way, I'm going to be 100% on one that I'm going across the court for. There won't be any doubt in my mind.

[LRZ]

To some extent, this depends on who your partners are (familiar or never worked together before?) and what you pre-game. I only work 2-ref, and my pre-game always includes this: "I'm not territorial, so if you clearly see a foul in my primary, call it. Let's get it right."

I also disagree with this: " I've been told that it would be more appropriate to let him deal with the consequences of missing a call if he messed it up." The officials are a team, and the team bears the responsibility to get foul calls right. Don't guess, but if 100% sure? If I were your partner, I'd rather you make that call. Maybe I was straight-lined; maybe I was looking up top and could not see lower body contact.

IMO/YMMV.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Isn't getting it right more important that someone only fishing in their own pond?

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I'm fishing outside of my pond.

Brings to mind Lake Webster, right across the Massachusetts state line, otherwise known by its Native American Algonquian name, Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubuna. Translation is, "You fish on your side, I'll fish on my side, and no one shall fish in the middle".

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What did your partner say? Did he think it was clearly a foul? Did he think it was marginal or not a foul at all?

Also, that is a rather long way to get a foul from the C. So it has to be very accurate or in transition on some level. I am not sure what you described either was a crew saving call.

Peace

Thanks for the input. He thought the kid flopped because he kicked his legs out, but the contact I saw and called was across the arm.

It was absolutely a long way to go, and that is how sure I am that it was a foul. In hindsight I wouldn't call it, just because I've been told that it would be more appropriate to let him deal with the consequences of missing a call if he messed it up.

And btw this ended up being a 1 possession game at the end.

[griblets]

If I'm the T, and I missed it, I would want you to come get it. Some won't. Got to know your partners. For me, it's not about who's right, it's about what's right. Just be sure you're right when you go that far!

[CJP]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

When is it appropriate to reach out of your area? Does it have to be a flagrant or technical foul situation? Am I the worst partner ever? I've always read on here that you don't come that far out of your PCA unless it is a "crew saver". I felt like this fit the bill.

I have had partners call fouls and violations in my primary area and I would say they were wrong most of the time. This does not include the times where primary coverage overlaps (dribble drive) but a clear case of me thinking "why is he even looking here". In most cases, my partner was absolutely sure the call was correct.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Last night I am C, not much going on in my PCA, last second shot at the end of the 3rd quarter, 3 point shot goes up just below the FT line extended, which just happened to be directly across the court from me and my line of sight. (IE I have a great angle). I take a glance at it. I see the defender CLEARLY foul the shooter across the arm. I KNOW this is a foul, but I also know this is not my call. I wait, expecting a whistle from the trail, shooter comes all the way down, no whistle from Trail... I blow. Neither coach says a word, not even a groan from the crowd. Everyone saw this foul. Coach of the shooter actually commented that this was a great call (because he knew it wasn't my call to make but I did anyway).

Needless to say my partner wasn't happy.

When is it appropriate to reach out of your area? Does it have to be a flagrant or technical foul situation? Am I the worst partner ever? I've always read on here that you don't come that far out of your PCA unless it is a "crew saver". I felt like this fit the bill.

I could have used you on my game Monday. I had a play in my primary (3-point shot from trail, more or less at the FT-line extended) where the shot came off really odd. I, however, just did not see any contact. I didn't know if the shooter muffed it as he went up or what. My partners probably didn't seen anything they could have helped with but if they had, I would have been fine with the help. At halftime, I asked the crew waiting for the next game what happened (they were sitting behind the C) and they told me he was definitely fouled and told me where/how. It was a bit unusual, but it should have been a foul. I just missed it. Luckily, the team that was shooting was up by a bunch and was going to win going away so I didn't catch any grief over it.

[Randa16]

Nothing ticks me off more then my partner calling a foul or violation in my area. In high school games if you pull this crap the first time you get a loook, the second you a head shake and the third we are going to have a conversation you will not like at halftime or after the game. I still do youth games and that is a train wreck of officials who call outside their area. I had a partner in lead position call travel at half court one time, I reversed the call and told him to stay the F out of my area before I get mad. I don’t call other areas for 2 reasons, it’s your job and your area and second it looks bad when

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Randa16

I reversed the call and told him to stay the F out of my area before I get mad.

You reversed your partners call? Sounds suspicious.