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  #151 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:04pm
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I'm surprised that people seem to be arguing semantics, not necessarily the merits of the call that I made. It was on Trail's side of the lane, but still in an area where L, T, and C coverage could overlap. Lead had no call, but he was probably either screened or looking at lower bodies. I believe that I did the right thing by waiting for the T to make the call, followed by a cadence whistle and selling the call. What would y'all have done in this situation?
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
I get what you are saying, but turning down those contracts means you don't ever advance or get games period. Am I right? That seems like the situation to me.

Why should anybody be required to do anything but high school games that they are licensed for? Sounds like the assignor is helping out the wreck leagues by requiring the high school officials to do junk games. Way too much power by one person.
Well, I guess that depends on where you live and who you work for. I work for multiple people that assign other things and I almost never work games for them but high school or college for that matter. I get emails every day from some of these people asking for us to fill lower level games that are not high school games. I ignore the emails all the time. I am not working those games because I already have games or it is not worth it to leave the house for some JH game that I have no desire to work in the first place. But then again I work for multiple high school assignors, not one guy that assigns everything. So there is a difference in my situation than maybe this situation.

Peace
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:12pm
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Happy Ending ... ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
For all the crap he sometimes gets here, let's cut ilyazhito some slack, as he did say "the defender struck the shooter on the arm" and "Red 3 hit the White player on his arm" and "It was illegal contact to a shooter's arm."
Some quotes are for different plays, same game.

My original criticism could have easily been handled by, "I meant to say arm, not hand". End of story. But it's not too late, it can still have a happy ending.

The purpose of my comment was to clarify for all that (in layman's terms) the hand is considered to be a part of the ball.

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler, or a shooter, on that player's hand (in contact with the ball) that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:12pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
That would be fine if he just said that he meant to say arm instead of hand, but he never did, nor did he edit his original post.

I still don't believe that he fully understands 4-24-2. But he should be by shortly to clarify.
I'll type slowly for youuuuuuuu.

He referenced the contact 5 different times. The first time, generically he typed "hand". The other 4 times he clearly indicated the contact was to the arm. So you cherry-picked one statement simply so you could post a Ginger Rogers video. That stuff gets annoying.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:13pm
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Closure ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I'm surprised that people seem to be arguing semantics, not necessarily the merits of the call that I made. It was on Trail's side of the lane, but still in an area where L, T, and C coverage could overlap. Lead had no call, but he was probably either screened or looking at lower bodies. I believe that I did the right thing by waiting for the T to make the call, followed by a cadence whistle and selling the call. What would y'all have done in this situation?
Don't care where you were, or how you sold the call.

End it now. Contact on hand? Or, contact on arm?

Say the right word and this will all go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
... illegal use of hands, for hitting the shooter on the hand ...
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 30, 2019 at 04:16pm.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Some quotes are for different plays, same game.

My original criticism could have easily been handled by, "I meant to say arm, not hand". End of story. But it's not too late, it can still have a happy ending.

The purpose of my comment was to clarify for all that (in layman's terms) the hand is considered to be a part of the ball.

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler, or a shooter, on that player's hand (in contact with the ball) that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.
Maybe he has you on "ignore" because of your propensity for off-topic and misleading posts, so he doesn't know that YOU need clarification. You made the nonsensical reference to "below the wrist" as meaning "the hand".

If you think something needs to be clarified, either clarify it yourself without misrepresenting the original quote or ask an on-point question without all the circular nonsense that makes some of your posts impossible to digest.

And please quit using the excuse that "somebody" needs clarification. Allow the adults in this forum to speak for themselves, we don't need an advocate.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:22pm
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Cherry Pick ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So you cherry-picked one statement simply so you could post a Ginger Rogers video.
It's pretty tough to cherry pick when there was only one cherry to pick in the original post. My criticism was valid then, got a somewhat confusing, highly detailed reply, then I cherry picked to get back to the original post, and I will change my criticism as soon as he says, "I meant to say hand".
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:24pm
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Quoting Horace ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
And please quit using the excuse that "somebody" needs clarification. Allow the adults in this forum to speak for themselves ..
You (not you meaning you, Raymond) don't know what you don't know.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:26pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
You (not you meaning you, Raymond) don't know what you don't know.
I don't treat everyone here like their a 3rd grader who needs a teacher to guide them through the learning process. We may not all be scientists, but we are capable of learning and interpreting and questioning on our own.

YOU are the only one fixated on that one sentence. Anybody else here trying to learn about staying in or straying from their primary read his DETAILED description of the play, which consistently referenced contact to the arm.

Maybe he is not interested in YOU shoving YOUR teaching lesson down his throat. If YOU want to clarify for "those who don't know what they don't know", then write your clarification and move on. Instead we get the repetitive posts waiting for his answer (posts that are also disingenuous on your part since you type them in a manner pretending that you don't know the proper rule or verbiage).
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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Jan 30, 2019 at 04:33pm.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:40pm
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Don't Know ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... for "those who don't know what they don't know", then write your clarification and move on.
Maybe it was a typo hiccup? Certainly acceptable. Or maybe he doesn't know that contact on the hand during a shot can, in some cases, be legal? Unacceptable for a varsity official.

If it's the former, I will withdraw my criticism.

If it's the later, we can further discuss this topic.

I don't know which it is? He can easily answer this, and put it to bed for good.

Or he can just lay low and keep me wondering. That's also certainly acceptable.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 30, 2019 at 04:47pm.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Maybe it was a typo hiccup? Certainly acceptable. Or maybe he doesn't know that contact on the hand during a shot can, in some cases, be legal? Unacceptable for a varsity official.

I don't know which it is? He can easily answer this, and put it to bed for good.

Or he can just lay low and keep me wondering. That's also certainly acceptable.
If you are truly concerned about those who don't know, you would clarify the rule with proper verbiage. But obsessing about one poster absorbing your lesson plan makes me doubt that is your true goal. You seem more intent of forcing him to answer the question the way you want it answered.

Again, how do you know he doesn't have you on "ignore"?
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:48pm
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Sorry ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
.. in a manner pretending that you don't know the proper rule or verbiage.
Good point, I apologize to ilyazhito for my sarcasm (if he's reading my posts).
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:59pm
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Polite ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
If you are truly concerned about those who don't know, you would clarify the rule with proper verbiage.
I did. Twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler, or a shooter, on that player's hand (in contact with the ball) that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4-24-2: It is legal use of hands to reach to block or slap the ball
controlled by a dribbler or a player throwing for goal or a player holding it
and accidentally hitting the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with
the ball.
Some type of acknowledgment, or confirmation, not necessarily a thank you, or even an negative reply, a disagreement, would have been polite, certainly not needed, but polite.

I'm not a big fan of a passive aggressive style, sometimes I don't understand it, or don't even know that it's happening.

If anything, I'm always polite. Which is why I'm upset with myself at my recent sarcastic post. And to make it worse, I was quite proud of my witty post after clicking save. Again, I'm sorry.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 30, 2019 at 05:16pm.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:22pm
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Billy, I edited the OP to say arm. I meant "the part of the forearm closer to the wrist", but I don't know if people consider the area where forearm and wrist meet hand or arm. This is the officiating forum, not doctors or anatomy and physiology forum.
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:37pm
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Hand / Part Of Ball ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Billy, I edited the OP to say arm. I meant "the part of the forearm closer to the wrist", but I don't know if people consider the area where forearm and wrist meet hand or arm. This is the officiating forum, not doctors or anatomy and physiology forum.
Sorry I criticized you and very sorry I used sarcasm. Not my best day on the Forum.

At least now nonofficials who may not be Forum members and who may have a question about hand/part of ball (layman's terms) may have a better chance of finding the answer when they use the Google to search.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 30, 2019 at 06:44pm.
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