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Legal.
I read something somewhere about thinking of the end of the dribble as a process (i.e. the gather) rather than a single moment in time. Using this philosophy, it's clear to me that the gather ends with the left foot as the pivot, and it doesn't come back down before the ball is released. Is it good for the game to split hairs and rule these plays travels? Not for me. |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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That said, I'm never going to call this one because I wouldn't be good enough to see it and be sure of it. But, that doesn't make it not a travel. It just means it is too close to see clearly.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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You try to sell us on this notion every time I post one of these videos. But we have to guess what we see in your situation rather than see what is clear on the video. And we have to slow it down to even come close. Sorry, I see nothing on this video that the ball handler got any control with one hand. The ball could be spinning or not come to rest until both hands come to the ball. And I am not calling that a violation that close or in real time or in slow motion. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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There is no magic 3rd state of player control between dribbling and holding. When the dribble ends, holding begins...that is how the dribble ends, by rule. Unless you're saying the player lost control and there was a window in which you would not grant a timeout, you have only two choices: dribbling or holding. As such, if it reaches a point where you'd call another dribble a carry, you have, by rule, deemed the player to be holding the ball. Saying a player hasn't "gathered" is the equivalent of saying a player wasn't set or over-the-back. It is establishing requirements that are contrary to what the rules say.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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I don't have a travel there...left foot appeared to be pivot and it never came back down. Nice video...
From spending time at a pretty high level shooting camp a few years back...That's a good video showing what the Euro is. I try to tell guys all the time, all a "Euro" is...one step at the defender and the next out to the side/away...why is that so hard to comprehend. These players out here poorly executing illegal jump stop where they get up in the air then land 1 - 2 and get banged for travel, then trying to say "euro step" crack me up. Euro or American, pivot foot allowances don't change! |
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There is no magic 3rd state of player control between dribbling and holding. When the dribble ends, holding begins...that is how the dribble ends, by rule. Unless you're saying the player lost control and there was a window in which you would not grant a timeout, you have only two choices: dribbling or holding. As such, if it reaches a point where you'd call another dribble a carry, you have, by rule, deemed the player to be holding the ball.[/QUOTE] Agreed, but no one is trying to split hairs other than you in this situation. And even you are saying you would not call this a travel. I have seen players without moving to try to catch a pass with one hand and not do it so cleanly. So it is possible that everyone is saying it is not clear that he stops his dribble until the ball is in both hands. And if there is a benefit of the doubt every given, that is my philosophy on this or many other kinds of plays. If it was clear he had possession with one hand, I have no issues going with that. But you are talking about a carry in the context of this play where it does not really apply. A carry is usually a move to hesitate or deceive in a way to make your defender think he/she is stopping their dribble. Not exactly the case here. Quote:
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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It’s a bad term. Using it doesn’t mean you can’t referee or be “very good” at it. I could have said it differently. I’m not sure when the term came in but I’ve never liked it..
Last edited by BigCat; Mon Jan 07, 2019 at 09:51pm. |
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People need to stop IMO with the brow-beating of things that are not specifically covered in the rule. I get it if we are talking about things that completely bastardize the rule or misinform. But neither "gather" or "euro-step" does either. They both describe an action that explains a moment or movement that we have rules to suggest either legal or illegal actions. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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In a recent game, I was at Trail and had a player come from my primary and his move to the basket looked pretty much exactly like this. The C came over and got a travel. I didn't make a big deal of it, but I really didn't think he needed to come get it, and felt like he did simply because it looked funny. |
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Whether I say gather or catch, it doesn't change my ruling on this play. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Tue Jan 08, 2019 at 12:48am. |
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