When to start 10 second count?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DrPete

True. Why can't people just answer a simple rules question? Oops, that was a question too. Maybe the poster is coach, a fan or a rec league ref without access to a rule book.

Rule 9-8 says: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

So to answer to the OP, begin the 10 second count when the player gains control of the ball in the backcourt.

Then qualify that, this is an official's forum, not a coach's or fan's forum.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

Publisher's Note: The National Federation of State High School Associations is the only source of official high school interpretations. They do not set aside nor modify any rule. They are made and published by the NFHS in response to situations presented.
Robert F. Kanaby, Publisher, NFHS Publications 2008

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A? RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A? RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

Rule 9-8 says: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

I am having an absolute brain freeze. Cortex won't work...except to type. On a throw-in to the BC, the count is not started until there is player control in the BC. What citation explains that the 10 second count is started with player control and not simply when the ball is in the BC? (b/c there is still team control during a throw-in)

Example: A1 releases the ball on a throw-in to the BC and the ball slowly rolls in the BC for 4 seconds without being touched. A2 gets the ball and the official begins the 10-second count. Why does the 10-second count not start when the ball is inbounds rolling untouched, after all Team A had team control?

I know the rule, just can't find where it is documented. Or does this fall under the reasoning that there is no documentation needed because TC on a throw-in only applies to foul situations? I just can't remember. Thought there was something specific.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

I know the rule, just can't find where it is documented.

Ask Alexa, or Siri. And then ask her to rub your back.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

Rule 9-8 says: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

I am having an absolute brain freeze. Cortex won't work...except to type. On a throw-in to the BC, the count is not started until there is player control in the BC. What citation explains that the 10 second count is started with player control and not simply when the ball is in the BC? (b/c there is still team control during a throw-in)

Example: A1 releases the ball on a throw-in to the BC and the ball slowly rolls in the BC for 4 seconds without being touched. A2 gets the ball and the official begins the 10-second count. Why does the 10-second count not start when the ball is inbounds rolling untouched, after all Team A had team control?

I know the rule, just can't find where it is documented. Or does this fall under the reasoning that there is no documentation needed because TC on a throw-in only applies to foul situations? I just can't remember. Thought there was something specific.

Your last point is the reason....there is only team control on a throwin for fouls. Real and full team control only begins when an inbounds player gains control.

[CJP]

Did a "veteran" official make a false claim about a shot clock reset situation and edit it? Just wondering if I am losing my mind because I just read up on it and at least in my state, he would be wrong. Proves my point that no matter how "basic" a rule should be, it is okay to discuss sometimes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CJP

Did a "veteran" official make a false claim about a shot clock reset situation and edit it?

Not a false claim, just an old situation that is no longer valid, making it confusing, which is why I deleted it.

Sorry if I confused anybody.

As the young'uns say, "My bad" (do they still say that?).

[CJP]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not a false claim, just an old situation that is no longer valid, making it confusing, which is why I deleted it.

Sorry if I confused anybody.

As the young'uns say, "My bad" (do they still say that?).

Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing. Does a new shot clock start on a touch or control in a rebounding situation?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Your last point is the reason....there is only team control on a throwin for fouls. Real and full team control only begins when an inbounds player gains control.

I know this is correct, but where is the rule on team control on a throw-in only for fouls?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I know this is correct, but where is the rule on team control on a throw-in only for fouls?

Good question, but you (know you are) asking the wrong person.

It's in the various POEs. FED could change that. No one here can.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

... where is the rule on team control on a throw-in only for fouls?

That's the $64,000.00 question.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

Now, how are those without access to a 2017-18 rulebook supposed to know this?

By the oral tradition of young basketball officials sitting around a campfire listening to stories about old Points of Emphasis from old, grizzled, veteran officials?



That's Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on the left, back when he had a full head of hair.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2011-12 BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES
Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered.

"Primarily" not "solely" so what else does it affect?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on the left, back when he had a full head of hair.

That's Mark T. DeNucci, Jr. (the long haired tree hugging hippie) on the right. He's discussing with his Dad how easy it is to buy GEICO insurance online.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

.

Several weeks ago I spit into a cup and sent it off to 23 And Me for testing.

Turns out that 4% of my DNA is Neanderthal.

Now, like many, I'm highly offended by this television commercial:

https://youtu.be/EYottyI027o

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I know this is correct, but where is the rule on team control on a throw-in only for fouls?

PIAA 2017-2018 POE

Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.
With specific regard to the backcourt violation; a team may not be the last to touch a live ball in the front court and then be the first to touch a live ball in the backcourt, provided that team has establish player control/team control on the playing court (either in the backcourt or frontcourt). BY RULE EXCEPTION, during a throw-in a team may leave the front court, establish player control/team control while airborne and land in the backcourt. This is a legal play and ONLY applies to the first player of the offense who touches the ball PRIOR to the end of the throw-in.