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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 06:31pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No you haven't. Blame me.
Billy causing confusion? No one has ever predicted that.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 06:39pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Billy causing confusion? No one has ever predicted that.

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I can live with Billy's discussion points, even though confusing . The first response to the original question was uncalled for.

I could have ignored Billy's edited post but I thought it was a good time to prove a point that it is okay for people to ask questions, even if things seem straight forward. It should be encouraged.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 07:47pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
Maybe the poster is coach, a fan or a rec league ref without access to a rule book.
This is not quite true, in this internet age. There are fairly-recent on-line resources, in fact--a 2017-2018 rule book and a 2016-2017 casebook--which can be searched easily.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 08:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jqb12 View Post
I simply asked a question that a veteran of 40 years ran by me yesterday at our game. I understood the justification he gave and trusted he was correct based on his veteran status, but for my own learning/knowledge of the game i was looking for more, or someone else to give me the same answer. Since the game, I've asked several area officials on this play, and they are all wrong also (Dr. Pete)!
So, then, perhaps a better question than the one you asked is of the form, "A veteran told me X. As I read the rule, it should be Y, because ... What, if anything am I missing in this?"
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 10:47pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
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Free, With No Advertising ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
... in this internet age. There are ... on-line resources ... which can be searched easily.
... for example, the Forum.

And if you're having trouble searching, just type in a question to one of our many expert online customer service representatives (most not located in India) to start an online chat, and you'll likely get a pretty reliable answer in a very short period of time.

Isn't this internet age just amazing? It's so easy to find information. But be careful. Remember what our sixteenth president, Abraham Lincoln, said, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet".
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 06, 2019 at 11:30pm.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2019, 10:50pm
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A Mark Goodson-Bill Todman Production ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
What, if anything am I missing in this?
That's my line.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 08:58am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... for example, the Forum.

...
...If the person answering CHOOSES to give a straight-forward, rule book answer. There is no obligation to do so, and those who don't shouldn't be demonized for not doing someone else's leg work.

All the posters here whom I trust with rules knowledge (including myself) engage the OPs with questions to further the discussion in order to lead to a logical and researched conclusion. These discussions often cause us to do our own research and discover some nuances we may ourselves not been aware of initially.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 09:06am
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NCAAW Interp (correct because the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule):

DATE:

1/2/2019

RULE:

4-8-2

QUESTION:

Team A has control of the ball in the front court. B2 deflects the ball deep into the back court and A2 runs back and receives the ball back by the free throw line. Because team A was still in team control does the 10 second counts start when the ball crosses the division line or when A2 picks the ball up?

ANSWER:

No part of the backcourt count is predicated on the ball crossing the division line. When B2 deflected the ball into the backcourt, the ten-second count begins when any player touches the ball in Team A’s backcourt (Rule 9-10; A.R. 233 [1]).


Here's the relevant rule:

Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt
The 10-second count shall begin when a player legally touches the ball in her
team’s backcourt except on a rebound or jump ball. In such case, the 10-second
count shall start on player control. Once the 10-second count begins, an
inbounds player (and her team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that
is in her backcourt for 10 consecutive seconds. The 10-second count shall be
reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the opponents cause the
ball to be out of bounds, the team in control retains possession following a held
ball, a technical foul is assessed to the team in control, or the team in control
is granted a timeout.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Mon Jan 07, 2019 at 09:09am.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 10:24am
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Posts: 1,319
So, to clarify...

NFHS: Count begins when team control in the backcourt begins. Following a throw-in, that means the count begins once player control is established in the backcourt (true team control). When the ball is deflected by the defense into the backcourt but is still in the offense's control, the count begins as soon as the ball gains backcourt status.

NCAA-M/W: Count begins when the ball is touched in the backcourt by the team in control. The count begins when the throw-in ends when touched in the backcourt. When there is no team control, the count begins when player control in the backcourt begins.

Correct?
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 10:42am
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Sometimes You Feel Like A Nut, Sometimes You Don't ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
...If the person answering CHOOSES to give a straight-forward, rule book answer. There is no obligation to do so, and those who don't shouldn't be demonized for not doing someone else's leg work. All the posters here whom I trust with rules knowledge engage the OPs with questions to further the discussion in order to lead to a logical and researched conclusion. These discussions often cause us to do our own research and discover some nuances we may ourselves not been aware of initially.
Agree with everything.

Sometimes one just wants a simple answer.

Sometimes one gets it, sometimes one doesn't.

One gets what one pays for.

What are the annual dues to join the Forum?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 07, 2019 at 10:53am.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 10:49am
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High School Versus College ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
... the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule ... Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt
Maybe that's why the NFHS came out with the annual interpretation (2008-09 SITUATION 8), because high school officials were confusing the high school rule with the college rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... the NFHS must have thought that something "fishy" was going on to make this situation an annual interpretation.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 07, 2019 at 10:57am.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 12:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute.

I don't understand when people take and take and take and then complain about how the responses are unfriendly and the like -- if you were a contributor, I'd be more inclined to listen more.

I get we're an annoying bunch at times, but we know the answers to these questions and rather than answer them, we'd like to get people to find the answers themselves by asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out. That's all.
I have to say I appreciate all the knowledge that you guys supply. Your methods of getting the answer to somebody is effective and gets a guy to think. I've learned plenty from you guys. Even how to "T" somebody up!!

Thanks guys!
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 01:31pm
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Posts: 36
Smile When to start 10 second count?

Well...………..72 responses later, thanks for clearing this up. I learned something.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 01:33pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jqb12 View Post
Well...………..72 responses later, thanks for clearing this up. I learned something.
You could have found the answer to the question in 10 minutes (quicker with the app).

Peace
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2019, 01:43pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
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Location: Connecticut
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As Long As You Learned Something ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jqb12 View Post
72 responses later, thanks for clearing this up. I learned something.
It wasn't as bad as that:

9:09 Post 1 Jqb12 Question
10:23 Post 5 DrKildare Wrong Answer
10:26 Post 6 Nevadaref Answer Questioned
10:47 Post 9 BigCat Right Answer
11:09 Post 13 Nevadaref Answer Confirmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You could have found the answer to the question in 10 minutes.
JRutledge has a good point, ten minutes is a lot shorter than two hours.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 07, 2019 at 01:47pm.
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