Misuse Of Team Control Foul ...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

This is a pretty good junior varsity official, good rules knowledge (except for this), good mechanics, good play calling judgment.

Could he be confusing NFHS rules with another rule set, possibly NBA?
...

I don't care how good of an official he is, I'm not letting a partner kick a rather basic rule. And I don't know what has him confused, but what will unconfused him is getting into the rule book.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't care how good of an official he is, I'm not letting a partner kick a rather basic rule.

I agree. Although I'm not going to get into an argument (cf. Rich's famous video), I'd certainly approach my partner with the correct rule at that moment.

Moreover, the fact that it's the 4th quarter of a blow-out is all the more reason to "pursue this on the court." In the circumstances, it's likely that the kid who was fouled is a scrub, and he was deprived of his opportunity to shoot those FTs and score.

Several weeks ago, I was watching as three experienced varsity officials awarded FTs on what could only have been a team control foul. I almost called out, from the stands, "Team control?"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

I agree. Although I'm not going to get into an argument (cf. Rich's famous video), I'd certainly approach my partner with the correct rule at that moment.

I wasn't sure at the time that he saw the same contact as me.

In hindsight, I did the right thing by waiting until post game, because since the one on one discussion of team control post game didn't work, it certainly wouldn't have worked very well on the court.

Can we charge a stubborn partner with a technical foul for unruliness?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't care how good of an official he is, I'm not letting a partner kick a rather basic rule. And I don't know what has him confused, but what will unconfused him is getting into the rule book.

It is his call. You can bring information to him, but you can’t change his decision if he doesn’t want to. I’m glad that Billy didn’t cause a confrontation on the court. His partner holds some silly belief that “we never shoot on these types of rebounding fouls,” so the guy wasn’t going to change his mind. Time to move on.

[LRZ]

There is a difference between a "confrontation" and a brief conference between officials.

[MattReferee]

Hey next time you all have your Chapter meeting bring it up...I’m going assume that some will side with your partner and most should view it from your view and point that is obviously correct 🤷*♂️👌 and maybe if your partner is in attendance may say🤷*♂️..dang I understand stand now what my partner was saying!!!
“You can lead a horse to water”.....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MattReferee

Hey next time you all have your Chapter meeting bring it up...

I emailed my interpreter and it's already on the agenda for our January meeting.

[ltllng]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is his call. You can bring information to him, but you can’t change his decision if he doesn’t want to. I’m glad that Billy didn’t cause a confrontation on the court. His partner holds some silly belief that “we never shoot on these types of rebounding fouls,” so the guy wasn’t going to change his mind. Time to move on.

This is not a judgment, but the awarding of the penalty, so it is the crews fault for not applying the rules correctly. It is both officials responsibilty to award the free throws as the rules state.
His "call" is the judgment of the foul. You must change the decision in this case. We are trained to get the call right.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ltllng

This is not a judgment, but the awarding of the penalty, so it is the crews fault for not applying the rules correctly.

On the court I was never 100% sure that the foul he called was the same one that I observed and chose not to call.

I'm still not 100% sure that we had the same thing.

He told me "team control" and his penalty (possession, no free throws) matched his label (team control) for the foul.

To paraphrase James Bond (Diamonds Are Forever, 1971), the collars and cuffs match.

https://youtu.be/wLPEeDsZwGs

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is his call. You can bring information to him, but you can’t change his decision if he doesn’t want to. I’m glad that Billy didn’t cause a confrontation on the court. His partner holds some silly belief that “we never shoot on these types of rebounding fouls,” so the guy wasn’t going to change his mind. Time to move on.

I would agree if he told you that the player was in control of the ball and the foul took place. Then you cannot change the call. But if he tells you that there was no control and this was still at TC foul, then we are having a longer discussion. And I am going to do everything in my power to convince him not to go with that ruling. Because if we shot FTs and we got it wrong, they are not going to just blame the official that called the foul. They are going to blame the crew. Even if this was not a blowout and a very close game, we cannot make that mistake without a discussion. Of course, there is only going to be something that we can change at the end, but I am not going to go into the locker room just assuming he was right. He will know how I feel.

Peace