Halftime Questions

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Wow! Really? I find that rather absurd. The 6th best player is going to cause a big drop off in the flow and quality of the game? Virtually every game has stretches where play can get sloppy even with the best 5 players from each team in the game. Players 10-15 might certainly affect the flow and quality (but at that point the game has likely been decided) but the 6th player? I can't ever think of a time where I was even remotely concerned about the 6th player affecting the flow and quality of a game. I think sometimes we believe big-time officials are giving us nuggets when it's really only fools gold.

In a college game? Maybe. Not sure how much high school ball you do but that can be a big difference, especially in the girls game. It’s also not always a perfect sixth player for best player substitute situation. If the best player is a post player, it’s likely the next post in is probably going to be some big bruiser or a gangly kid who can’t handle the ball. Maybe he’s the 8th or 9th best player. Either way, the quality of the game, the flow, the fun aspect of officiating the game, etc all take a dip. Like I said, I was the same as most of you but it’s not a bad thing to manage a game. I mean no offense in saying this, but I’m much more apt to take my cues from Terry Oglesby than billyu2 from the internet message board. Just my two cents on how my game has evolved a bit this year.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

In a college game? Maybe. Not sure how much high school ball you do but that can be a big difference, especially in the girls game. It’s also not always a perfect sixth player for best player substitute situation. If the best player is a post player, it’s likely the next post in is probably going to be some big bruiser or a gangly kid who can’t handle the ball. Maybe he’s the 8th or 9th best player. Either way, the quality of the game, the flow, the fun aspect of officiating the game, etc all take a dip. Like I said, I was the same as most of you but it’s not a bad thing to manage a game. I mean no offense in saying this, but I’m much more apt to take my cues from Terry Oglesby than billyu2 from the internet message board. Just my two cents on how my game has evolved a bit this year.

No offense at all. I enjoy the discussion. Terry is expressing from his experience as a big time official. From my experience of 30+ HS I can say most often the better players are better not just by skill but by aggressiveness and physicality. When they inevitably get into foul trouble and have to sit, the game often has better flow and perhaps lesser quality. Either way, I don’t consider that much of a priority. I’ve worked hard and had games with good flow and quality and games where there was no flow and little quality.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by billyu2

No offense at all. I enjoy the discussion. Terry is expressing from his experience as a big time official. From my experience of 30+ HS I can say most often the better players are better not just by skill but by aggressiveness and physicality. When they inevitably get into foul trouble and have to sit, the game often has better flow and perhaps lesser quality. Either way, I don’t consider that much of a priority. I’ve worked hard and had games with good flow and quality and games where there was no flow and little quality.

That's fair. I don't mean for it to sound like I'd protect anyone. I'm just going to make sure that it's an elephant if I'm going to get them for their 4th or 5th. I worked with a guy last week that called the 3rd on a kid when the offensive player ran into them and bounced off. Player was legal and was just bigger. Partner said he wished he had that one back. I'm just going to be absolutely sure it's a foul in that situation, no marginal stuff.

[SC Official]

I ideally want no marginal fouls on any player at any point during the game. The time/score situation dictates the patience of my whistle and my processing of the play more so than who the player is. That is not to say that a foul in the 1Q isn't a foul at the end of the game, but it is to say that I need to have higher certainty in critical situations.

If it looks like I'm protecting a team's best player you can bet the other coach will let me know it, so I don't do that. There are some officials that basically stop one step short of teaching that protecting the best players is a good practice, and the foul needs to be a trainwreck to be called. To me that's a shameful way to officiate.

That said, if I have the opportunity to get a foul on a GFU that puts him on the bench and the film can support, I won't hesitate to grab it.

[Pantherdreams]

I see pros and cons. I like the idea of access to data that informs practice so getting info that helps me or my crew (my crew and I?) seems advantageous.

I've also been in games where I've seen/felt pressure to keep a kid in the game and started over analyzing situations or calls. Me problem not a philosophical concern.

Example from last years local regional playdown. My partner and I were working a quarter final game. (1 pair of officials for each quarters, regrouped for semi's, 3rd place, and final.) Late in a close quarter final game my partner has a conversation with the coach telling him to have his #8 be careful because she doesn't want to pick up her 5th on something reckless. He responded back that she only has 2. he goes to me and the the book next Time Out coach is correct. He had been giving her some leeway as he didn't want her fouling on on marginal calls.

Next game he gets in the semi her team is in and she gets 5 fouls in about 9 minutes of playing time.

Not criticizing either situation, just using it to illustrate the pros and cons. Having the right information can allow you to manage a game. Having misinformation or no information can allow you to mismanage. But having the information might actually impact how you see or deal with particular player or call. You have to be ok with that.

More knowledge or information always impacts perspective. You have to find your level of comfort with the amount of information and perspective you apply.

[just another ref]

Never mind the numbers, I don't think there is any question that when a player leaves the game and a player of lesser ability comes in it can have a significant impact on the game. BUT, when a player gets into foul trouble it is the player who should be "more careful," not the official.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Never mind the numbers, I don't think there is any question that when a player leaves the game and a player of lesser ability comes in it can have a significant impact on the game. BUT, when a player gets into foul trouble it is the player who should be "more careful," not the official.

Not all players with high abilities make the game better, some make it worse and having them out makes the game go better.