Halftime Questions

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Is it inconceivable that consciously trying to avoid a "shitty call" in this situation could lead to a shitty no call?

Leads to increased concentration and certainty on my part.

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[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Leads to increased concentration and certainty on my part.

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I'll buy that. But for me I think that means I have a tendency to blow less whistles on anyone late in a close game, not just impact players. ("LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE THE GAME!!") Put me in the camp of never asking who has three or four fouls, but quite often we know anyway, whether we like it or not.

[bob jenkins]

I just like to know so we can properly administer the fifth foul instead of having the table buzz us back. Plus we can sometimes figure out the offense and better judge any contact if we know who they might be "attacking."

[UNIgiantslayers]

A Final Four official said this to me at camp this year and it resonated with me because I used to hate when guys would mention that:
If you get a cheap 3rd foul in the first half or a cheap 4th/5th in the second half on the best player on that team, rather than having the best player on the floor, you’ve now got the 6th best player on the floor. Does that improve the flow and quality of the basketball? That has reshaped my philosophy, and while I will go get it if it’s there, if it’s marginal or 50/50 as to whether it’s a foul or who the foul is on, I’m going to choose wisely in an effort to preserve the quality of basketball being played.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

A Final Four official said this to me at camp this year and it resonated with me because I used to hate when guys would mention that:
If you get a cheap 3rd foul in the first half or a cheap 4th/5th in the second half on the best player on that team, rather than having the best player on the floor, you’ve now got the 6th best player on the floor. Does that improve the flow and quality of the basketball? That has reshaped my philosophy, and while I will go get it if it’s there, if it’s marginal or 50/50 as to whether it’s a foul or who the foul is on, I’m going to choose wisely in an effort to preserve the quality of basketball being played.

Wow! Really? I find that rather absurd. The 6th best player is going to cause a big drop off in the flow and quality of the game? Virtually every game has stretches where play can get sloppy even with the best 5 players from each team in the game. Players 10-15 might certainly affect the flow and quality (but at that point the game has likely been decided) but the 6th player? I can't ever think of a time where I was even remotely concerned about the 6th player affecting the flow and quality of a game. I think sometimes we believe big-time officials are giving us nuggets when it's really only fools gold.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Wow! Really? I find that rather absurd. The 6th best player is going to cause a big drop off in the flow and quality of the game? Virtually every game has stretches where play can get sloppy even with the best 5 players from each team in the game. Players 10-15 might certainly affect the flow and quality (but at that point the game has likely been decided) but the 6th player? I can't ever think of a time where I was even remotely concerned about the 6th player affecting the flow and quality of a game. I think sometimes we believe big-time officials are giving us nuggets when it's really only fools gold.

In a college game? Maybe. Not sure how much high school ball you do but that can be a big difference, especially in the girls game. It’s also not always a perfect sixth player for best player substitute situation. If the best player is a post player, it’s likely the next post in is probably going to be some big bruiser or a gangly kid who can’t handle the ball. Maybe he’s the 8th or 9th best player. Either way, the quality of the game, the flow, the fun aspect of officiating the game, etc all take a dip. Like I said, I was the same as most of you but it’s not a bad thing to manage a game. I mean no offense in saying this, but I’m much more apt to take my cues from Terry Oglesby than billyu2 from the internet message board. Just my two cents on how my game has evolved a bit this year.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

In a college game? Maybe. Not sure how much high school ball you do but that can be a big difference, especially in the girls game. It’s also not always a perfect sixth player for best player substitute situation. If the best player is a post player, it’s likely the next post in is probably going to be some big bruiser or a gangly kid who can’t handle the ball. Maybe he’s the 8th or 9th best player. Either way, the quality of the game, the flow, the fun aspect of officiating the game, etc all take a dip. Like I said, I was the same as most of you but it’s not a bad thing to manage a game. I mean no offense in saying this, but I’m much more apt to take my cues from Terry Oglesby than billyu2 from the internet message board. Just my two cents on how my game has evolved a bit this year.

No offense at all. I enjoy the discussion. Terry is expressing from his experience as a big time official. From my experience of 30+ HS I can say most often the better players are better not just by skill but by aggressiveness and physicality. When they inevitably get into foul trouble and have to sit, the game often has better flow and perhaps lesser quality. Either way, I don’t consider that much of a priority. I’ve worked hard and had games with good flow and quality and games where there was no flow and little quality.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by billyu2

No offense at all. I enjoy the discussion. Terry is expressing from his experience as a big time official. From my experience of 30+ HS I can say most often the better players are better not just by skill but by aggressiveness and physicality. When they inevitably get into foul trouble and have to sit, the game often has better flow and perhaps lesser quality. Either way, I don’t consider that much of a priority. I’ve worked hard and had games with good flow and quality and games where there was no flow and little quality.

That's fair. I don't mean for it to sound like I'd protect anyone. I'm just going to make sure that it's an elephant if I'm going to get them for their 4th or 5th. I worked with a guy last week that called the 3rd on a kid when the offensive player ran into them and bounced off. Player was legal and was just bigger. Partner said he wished he had that one back. I'm just going to be absolutely sure it's a foul in that situation, no marginal stuff.

[SC Official]

I ideally want no marginal fouls on any player at any point during the game. The time/score situation dictates the patience of my whistle and my processing of the play more so than who the player is. That is not to say that a foul in the 1Q isn't a foul at the end of the game, but it is to say that I need to have higher certainty in critical situations.

If it looks like I'm protecting a team's best player you can bet the other coach will let me know it, so I don't do that. There are some officials that basically stop one step short of teaching that protecting the best players is a good practice, and the foul needs to be a trainwreck to be called. To me that's a shameful way to officiate.

That said, if I have the opportunity to get a foul on a GFU that puts him on the bench and the film can support, I won't hesitate to grab it.