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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 11:08am
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Halftime Questions

Is there any reason why an official would ask the official score keeper for foul counts on various players at halftime of a game. It would seem to me that this is not something an official would need or want to know at this point in the game.

Last edited by harmbu; Sat Dec 08, 2018 at 11:23am.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 11:53am
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Maybe the official might want to figure out who the problem players are, based on foul trouble. I don't know what other explanation could be there.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu View Post
Is there any reason why an official would ask the official score keeper for foul counts on various players at halftime of a game. It would seem to me that this is not something an official would need or want to know at this point in the game.

Are you asking as the scorer?


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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 12:53pm
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I am asking as the Athletic Director who hired the official score keeper. She came to me after the game asking why an official would ask.

I am not trying to stir anything up. I just wanted to know if this is a common practice that I need fo be aware of.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:08pm
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Dirty Little Secret ...

We're all thinking it, and dancing around the topic, so I might as well say it out loud.

Some officials want to make sure that the star players on both teams don't foul out on "gray area" fouls near the end of the game, they want to be 100% sure that a star player's fifth foul is a "real" fifth foul.

It's a dirty little secret among some officials. Now if any Forum member tells anybody else, they'll have to kill them.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 08, 2018 at 02:50pm.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:24pm
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We all have officiated with officials who want to have that type of information. I do not want it and if a partner gave me that information I would let it go through one ear out the other. WAIT!! That is not what I meant to say. I would ignore the information. Officiate the game the way one would always officiate the game and let the chips fall where they may.

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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:31pm
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I want to know who has 4 fouls, yes. I don't want to call any marginal fouls, but I want to be aware of who has 4. The other team, if smart, will try to get a fifth and for me it works both ways -- don't miss an actual foul, but don't put one on that player if it isn't deserved.

I also want to know if there are any GFUs and sometimes the foul list can help with that discussion at halftime.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:35pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I want to know who has 4 fouls, yes. I don't want to call any marginal fouls, but I want to be aware of who has 4. The other team, if smart, will try to get a fifth and for me it works both ways -- don't miss an actual foul, but don't put one on that player if it isn't deserved.

I also want to know if there are any GFUs and sometimes the foul list can help with that discussion at halftime.



Rich:


I respectfully disagree. Why? If it is a foul in the first thirty seconds of the game then it is a foul in the last thirty seconds of the game.


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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:38pm
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It goes without saying that I'd rather not call any marginal fouls.

But I especially don't want to call a fourth or fifth on anyone, especially an impact player who will not either have to play differently or will be out of the game if it's not an obvious, necessary foul.

I'd just rather know. A lot of top officials I've spoken with and have heard speak agree with me. Others don't. I'm just telling you where I sit on this.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 01:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu View Post
I am asking as the Athletic Director who hired the official score keeper. She came to me after the game asking why an official would ask.

I am not trying to stir anything up. I just wanted to know if this is a common practice that I need fo be aware of.
It's a good practice for an official to be aware of foul trouble, but not to explicitly ask. Later in games I will sometimes have the 2 scorers confirm they have the same players with 3 or more fouls.

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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 04:32pm
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Special Players Getting Special Treatment ...

Quote:
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... especially an impact player.
Special players getting special treatment isn't just an NBA concept.

That's not my bag, it doesn't seem like the intent and purpose of the rules, but I understand how it accepted by many others.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 04:50pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Special players getting special treatment isn't just an NBA concept.

That's not my bag, it doesn't seem like the intent and purpose of the rules, but I understand how it accepted by many others.
It's not special treatment, it's acknowledgement that a shitty call on an impact player is a much bigger deal than on someone who pops in to give a guy a 2 minute blow in the second quarter.

I want to know who has 3 at all times. Impact player, non-impact player, anyone. I won't hesitate to call those fouls when they're there.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 06:21pm
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Consistency ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... a shitty call on an impact player is a much bigger deal than on someone who pops in to give a guy a 2 minute blow in the second quarter.
It most certainly is, you'll get no argument from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I won't hesitate to call those fouls when they're there.
And neither would I. Throughout the game, in regard to calling fouls, I try to be consistent with my partner, consistent with what has already been called in the game, consistent with my local board's philosophy on advantage/disadvantage, freedom of movement, late game strategic fouls, etc., and I try to maintain that consistency for thirty-two minutes.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 08, 2018 at 06:35pm.
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 06:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It's not special treatment, it's acknowledgement that a shitty call on an impact player is a much bigger deal than on someone who pops in to give a guy a 2 minute blow in the second quarter.

Is it inconceivable that consciously trying to avoid a "shitty call" in this situation could lead to a shitty no call?
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Old Sat Dec 08, 2018, 08:01pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Is it inconceivable that consciously trying to avoid a "shitty call" in this situation could lead to a shitty no call?
Leads to increased concentration and certainty on my part.

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