Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Nope, we’re required to do a couple free scrimmages is every year. I do the minimum and more if we’re in a bind. That doesn’t mean I have to think it’s right to work for free without volunteering. Nice try, though.

Congrats on being forced to do free scrimmages. I'm sure people are excited to see you show up with your guns ready to fire should someone even dare look at you wrong.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Why in the world would I take MORE time away from my daughter and not be compensated for it??? Who are all of these wonderful people who give up their weekend for free? Could this be a reason there is a shortage? We are expected to love it so much that we’ll do it for free? Count me as one of the shitty people on this board, I have NO interest in working another job for free. Yikes.

Nobody said you are a shitty person or that you should do anything for free. You are free to decide what works for you and your family.

I suppose when you can choose from quite a few opportunities to work for free that are right down the road, the time into it isn't that much and that makes it more attractive for me and others. That's how it is for me.

I enjoy officiating and am always looking to get better. I don't view it as time away from my family, or doing a job for free. I have a career where I make money. This is a hobby that we get paid to do. Doing it occasionally for free is enjoyable for me. It doesn't have to be for you or anybody else. The tone some of you guys are throwing out there about working for free is ridiculous. Is it all about money for most of you or is it about giving up your free time?

Just so we are clear, NOBODY is a bad person for not working for free. This all started because someone made the statement they would never work for free. That's fine. You don't have to and I will occasionally. I think the skills and knowledge we have can be used to help out sometimes for free. That is all.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Nobody said you are a shitty person or that you should do anything for free. You are free to decide what works for you and your family.



I suppose when you can choose from quite a few opportunities to work for free that are right down the road, the time into it isn't that much and that makes it more attractive for me and others. That's how it is for me.



I enjoy officiating and am always looking to get better. I don't view it as time away from my family, or doing a job for free. I have a career where I make money. This is a hobby that we get paid to do. Doing it occasionally for free is enjoyable for me. It doesn't have to be for you or anybody else. The tone some of you guys are throwing out there about working for free is ridiculous. Is it all about money for most of you or is it about giving up your free time?



Just so we are clear, NOBODY is a bad person for not working for free. This all started because someone made the statement they would never work for free. That's fine. You don't have to and I will occasionally. I think the skills and knowledge we have can be used to help out sometimes for free. That is all.

I have thoughts about why a few people volunteering to work for free is a bad idea, but I'll come back to that when I have more time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

I have thoughts about why a few people volunteering to work for free is a bad idea, but I'll come back to that when I have more time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I look forward to hearing back from you and getting a different viewpoint without getting yelled at or talked down to.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

I'm curious about a few things you listed. What do you mean by "fines" and "insurance"?

Many IAABO boards have access to voluntary supplemental insurance provided by the Borden Perlman Insurance Agency. It's a bargain at $7.00 each year, especially the death benefit for those without life insurance that could help a family pay for a funeral, and the accident insurance for those that don't have their own medical insurance.

Accident Medical
$25,000 Excess Accident Limit
$25,000 Physical Therapy
$25,000 Dental
$10,000 Accidental Death
Liability $5,000,000 Per Official/Per Location
Game Fee Reimbursement
100% of Game Fee up to $50 per game
$2,000 Max Payout

We have a "laundry list" of fines:

Missed game assignments – full game fee
Game turn-back due to not blocking date in the Arbiter - $15
Arbiter Late Partner Evaluation (submitted more than 7 calendar days from assigned game date): 2 to 3 Late or Missed - $25 Total; 4 or more Late or Missed - $50 Total
Missed Meeting(s): A fine of $25 will be assessed for each meeting not attended beyond one permitted missed meeting.

My first year, in ancient times © Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., 2018, the new guys were often assigned to work some men's recreation leagues (no more). I forgot to put a triple header on my calendar, and was a no show. I could of been fined three game fees, a steep penalty (plus I lost the three game fees, in essence a six game fee fine) for a low paid (at the time) teacher with a young family, but our treasurer took pity on me and only fined me a single game fee, dodged a bullet there.

We also have late fees, and possible assignment penalties (half season, full season), for paying one's dues, fees, or fines, late, or if one bounces a check.

Membership Dues Late Payment Fee - $50
Game Assignment Fee (7%) Late Payment Fee - $50
Late Payment For All Fines Fee - $50
Returned check fee is $25

Penalty for Non-Compliance Membership Dues and Game Assignment Fee
If not paid by April 4 – Eligible for Assignments January 15
If not paid by May 1 – No assignments for the entire season

Penalty for Non-Compliance with Fines
No Assignments for the entire season (if not paid within 60 days of Fine letter)

We have a new one. Attendance at the year end banquet requires a $20 deposit that you get back when you attend the banquet. We were paying for too many "no show plates" each year.

I had a last minute family emergency last year and lost my $20. I wonder if I can deduct that from my taxes as a business expense. I'll check with my tax accountants, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Many IAABO boards have access to voluntary supplemental insurance provided by the Borden Perlman Insurance Agency. It's a bargain at $7.00 each year, especially the death benefit for those without life insurance that could help a family pay for a funeral, and the accident insurance for those that don't have their own medical insurance.

Accident Medical
$25,000 Excess Accident Limit
$25,000 Physical Therapy
$25,000 Dental
$10,000 Accidental Death
Liability $5,000,000 Per Official/Per Location
Game Fee Reimbursement
100% of Game Fee up to $50 per game
$2,000 Max Payout

We have a "laundry list" of fines:

Missed game assignments – full game fee
Game turn-back due to not blocking date in the Arbiter - $15
Arbiter Late Partner Evaluation (submitted more than 7 calendar days from assigned game date): 2 to 3 Late or Missed - $25 Total; 4 or more Late or Missed - $50 Total
Missed Meeting(s): A fine of $25 will be assessed for each meeting not attended beyond one permitted missed meeting.

We also have late fees, and possible assignment penalties (half season, full season), for paying one's dues, fees, or fines, late, or if one bounces a check.

Membership Dues Late Payment Fee - $50
Game Assignment Fee (7%) Late Payment Fee - $50
Late Payment For All Fines Fee - $50
Returned check fee is $25

Penalty for Non-Compliance Membership Dues and Game Assignment Fee
If not paid by April 4 – Eligible for Assignments January 15
If not paid by May 1 – No assignments for the entire season

Penalty for Non-Compliance with Fines
No Assignments for the entire season (if not paid within 60 days of Fine letter)

Wow! That's a lot of stuff. Some of those same fines apply to us, but a lot of them do not apply to how we do things.

I totally understand the insurance part of it. That's a great deal! I already have medical and life insurance, so that wouldn't mean much to me, but it could mean a great deal for many people.

How does your fine system have anything to do with working a scrimmage for free/volunteering?

Thanks for the conversation and information.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Nobody said you are a shitty person or that you should do anything for free. You are free to decide what works for you and your family.

I suppose when you can choose from quite a few opportunities to work for free that are right down the road, the time into it isn't that much and that makes it more attractive for me and others. That's how it is for me.

I enjoy officiating and am always looking to get better. I don't view it as time away from my family, or doing a job for free. I have a career where I make money. This is a hobby that we get paid to do. Doing it occasionally for free is enjoyable for me. It doesn't have to be for you or anybody else. The tone some of you guys are throwing out there about working for free is ridiculous. Is it all about money for most of you or is it about giving up your free time?

Just so we are clear, NOBODY is a bad person for not working for free. This all started because someone made the statement they would never work for free. That's fine. You don't have to and I will occasionally. I think the skills and knowledge we have can be used to help out sometimes for free. That is all.

If I misinterpreted your tone as holier-than-thou, my apologies. No sarcasm there. To me, it came off as "you guys aren't willing to do this for free???????" Almost incredulous.

I enjoy doing this. I truly do. I should add in the qualifier of "most nights." But I work 4-5 nights a week of varsity games due to the shortage of officials in my area, and I'm just not interested in doing it for free. I did some free work a few years back when I was a new official, and I did not enjoy it. Coaches still treated us poorly, the kids didn't thank us, and the parents were just as bad.

I spend my summers trying to get better by going to a camp or two, working paid scrimmages, and enjoying my time off from teaching and coaching (to a certain extent). Maybe I just don't have a lucrative enough career to ref for free. Who knows. What I do know is that I value my time with my family much more than I value "giving back" to kids who don't thank me, coaches who act like jerks, and fans who don't know the rules. Maybe those involved act differently in your area but that's how it is here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And the two ferries don't run in the winter.

This is what we call a "ferry" in Connecticut:



It's the nation's oldest (1655) continuously operating ferry service, more of a tourist attraction than a mode of transportation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

How does your fine system have anything to do with working a scrimmage for free/volunteering?

Nothing to do with each other.

We no longer volunteer to work free scrimmages.

Scrimmages are treated like any other assigned game. All fines apply, including the 7% assignment fee.

The difference is that we only get paid $50.00 (instead of usual Varsity Fee $97.17; Sub Varsity Fee $63.05), for three assigned officials who rotate into a two person game for six periods (about two hours).

So, in essence, the schools are getting about $240 worth of officiating for a scrimmage discount price of $150.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

... a lot of them do not apply to how we do things.

I'm curious. What do your guys get away with scot free (Yes Mr. President, it's not scott free), that our guys get fined for (other than partner evaluations)?

With 325 guys on our local board, we've got a few knuckleheads who would make life really difficult for our treasurer if these fines were not in place.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm curious. What do your guys get away with scot free (Yes Mr. President, it's not scott free), that our guys get fined for (other than partner evaluations)?

With 325 guys on our local board, we've got a few knuckleheads who would make life really difficult for our treasurer if these fines were not in place.

A lot of states don't have "associations" or "boards" dishing out assignments. If a conference assigner gets annoyed with someone, (s)he's free to not use him/her.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

You have a serious attitude problem and are looking for confrontation. You must be a pleasure to be around.

You must be the tough guy that walks in the gym, wants to be seen, and announces his presence with authority. I don't know anybody that wants to "show how tough they are" and not uphold the rules of sportsmanship. On the other hand, you seem like the guy that goes overboard and wants everybody to know you are in charge. See? It can go both ways.

I never said that me or any other official that is donating their time is putting up with a lot of nonsense. I said/meant regular joes that could be volunteering won't because of ONE little comment that turns them off. Whether that's from a kid, a coach, or a spectator. Regular joes have thin skin and won't put up with even ONE comment. Your reading comprehension is poor. It seems to me that when people see an actual official show up, the behavior is pretty good. It's hard for regular joes to volunteer because the behavior changes from the coaches, players, and crowd.

I never once said I was putting up with $hitty behavior when I volunteer. So, before you say I'm part of the problem and anoint yourself the leader of officials, try to grasp what I am saying. Thank you very much for the reminder on the sportsmanship rules.

Yes, I went quite a few years of my career without having to whack anybody. That has since changed. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you, and others, to believe that in parts of the world we have grown ups that don't act like Bobby Knight and don't need to be whacked. With the way you are acting towards me, and your confrontational attitude, I can see why you have probably had to hand out your share of Ts in your life. I probably have a style that doesn't cause coaches or players to boil over and display bad sportsmanship. If you are dealing with that a lot in your part of the world, I feel bad for you officials. Is it the lack of maturity from the adults in your area or is it the fault of the officials? You tell me!

Given your history of gloating about how "thick" your skin is and how few T's you call, you shouldn't be surprised that you don't get the respect on this forum that you think you should. Some of the best officials I know issue the most T's. Just look at Scott Foster.

I can imagine you're the official that laughs with the coach the whole game and makes everyone's job harder by not handling business.

Implying that officials who issue more T's than you and have a lower threshold for BS have "thin skin," "rabbit ears," "want to be seen," or any other fanboy-speak does make you a part of the problem, whether you like it or not. Have you ever considered that maybe your threshold is abnormally high? Doubt it.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

If I misinterpreted your tone as holier-than-thou, my apologies. No sarcasm there. To me, it came off as "you guys aren't willing to do this for free???????" Almost incredulous.

I enjoy doing this. I truly do. I should add in the qualifier of "most nights." But I work 4-5 nights a week of varsity games due to the shortage of officials in my area, and I'm just not interested in doing it for free. I did some free work a few years back when I was a new official, and I did not enjoy it. Coaches still treated us poorly, the kids didn't thank us, and the parents were just as bad.

I spend my summers trying to get better by going to a camp or two, working paid scrimmages, and enjoying my time off from teaching and coaching (to a certain extent). Maybe I just don't have a lucrative enough career to ref for free. Who knows. What I do know is that I value my time with my family much more than I value "giving back" to kids who don't thank me, coaches who act like jerks, and fans who don't know the rules. Maybe those involved act differently in your area but that's how it is here.

My apologies. Definitely didn't want to come off like that.

I too work 4-5 nights per week of varsity action. It's not like I work a free game every week. A couple of times per year. A couple of camps in the summer.

Once again, it sounds like a lot of you guys have coaches, players, and parents that are just more disrespectful than what I have seen. That's too bad and I can see how it contributes to your decision of not working for free.

Thanks for the conversation!

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nothing to do with each other.

We no longer volunteer to work free scrimmages.

Scrimmages are treated like any other assigned game. All fines apply, including the 7% assignment fee.

The difference is that we only get paid $50.00 (instead of usual Varsity Fee $97.17; Sub Varsity Fee $63.05), for three assigned officials who rotate into a two person game for six periods (about two hours).

So, in essence, the schools are getting about $240 worth of officiating for a scrimmage discount price of $150.

I see. Thanks for the info. I totally understand your stance.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm curious. What do your guys get away with scot free (Yes Mr. President, it's not scott free), that our guys get fined for (other than partner evaluations)?

With 325 guys on our local board, we've got a few knuckleheads who would make life really difficult for our treasurer if these fines were not in place.

Well for one, we don't do partner evaluations so there are no deadlines and fines for not doing one on time.

We don't have a "Game Assignment Fee Late Payment Fee" Not sure I understand what that is.

We don't tack on late payment for fines fees.

We don't have a missed game assignment fee/fine. Then again, we never have guys that "no show". Guys might need to drop games, but they find a replacement for themselves. We don't use Arbiter, so anything associated with that doesn't apply to us.

We don't have missed meetings penalties. If you don't hit the required number of meetings you are ineligible for post season.

I think that's it. You guys have a lot more "stuff" to deal with.