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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 06:53am
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Coaches make the rules?

I often see officials post that coaches make the rules. The NFHS rules committee makes the rules changes, right? Someone explain the entire process to me again. I can't find that info for some reason. I know we have discussed it but can't get all the info.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 06:57am
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The rules committee comprises state reps from the various regions of the country. These reps are in touch with coaches and AD's from their respective states.

If you have a change to suggest, send it to the OHSAA, who will evaluate it for forwarding to NFHS.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:33am
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In Ohio, I believe each sport has a rules advisory committee that meets after each season. They take input from the coaches' association and officials and, if warranted, send recommendations to the NFHS rules committee.

As a coach, if you have a rule you'd like to see changed, your best bet is to contact your coaches' association.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 12:58pm
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Each year I get an online survey from the NFHS regarding possible rules changes and I fill it out. Prior to that, and pretty soon, I will get an email from my state guy asking if there are any things that I would like to see changed in the rules. I think he forwards the ideas to the NFHS. Now, I do the state workshop in my part of the state so maybe that is why I get the opportunity to give my opinion. I am not sure if all officials in my state get the chance.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 01:08pm
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The vast majority of the people that sit on the NF Rules Commitees are administrators that represent their states. I know people love to point out the one guy that is an official on the committee, but by in large the NF is no different than the NCAA mostly coaches or people that have little to no expereince actually officiating a game. I think that is obvious how little officiating experience sit on these commitees when certain rules are suggested to be enforced or expected to be changed and it takes them years to consider all the possiblities and the holes a new rule or revision tends to make.

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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 01:39pm
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I think a lot of coaches would like to see 8-2-2 changed to only include PFs or USCs be tacked on to try or ensuing kickoff.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
I think a lot of coaches would like to see 8-2-2 changed to only include PFs or USCs be tacked on to try or ensuing kickoff.
I wouldn't be surprised to see that one in this year's survey.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 03:02pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The vast majority of the people that sit on the NF Rules Commitees are administrators that represent their states. I know people love to point out the one guy that is an official on the committee, but by in large the NF is no different than the NCAA mostly coaches or people that have little to no expereince actually officiating a game. I think that is obvious how little officiating experience sit on these commitees when certain rules are suggested to be enforced or expected to be changed and it takes them years to consider all the possiblities and the holes a new rule or revision tends to make.

Peace
Has there been any data come back yet on how many more/fewer kickoffs are returned this year compared to last year? I'm wondering if moving the kicking line and the touchback placement has had an appreciable affect in that regard, since that was the justification for all the moves.

I think the "helmet coming off" rule has resulted in the intended affect, though. I've only seen one helmet come off in my high school games this year, and it was one that we could tell was loose before the game even started but the bull-headed ACs wouldn't tighten his straps.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
I think a lot of coaches would like to see 8-2-2 changed to only include PFs or USCs be tacked on to try or ensuing kickoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see that one in this year's survey.
However, when you start making exceptions to the rules, that's when it gets screwed up. For that reason, the Fed isn't fond of exceptions. That's why the rule is written the way it is.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
I think a lot of coaches would like to see 8-2-2 changed to only include PFs or USCs be tacked on to try or ensuing kickoff.
So would a lot of officials.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:35pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
However, when you start making exceptions to the rules, that's when it gets screwed up. For that reason, the Fed isn't fond of exceptions. That's why the rule is written the way it is.
You don't need to make exceptions. Reword it positively, not negatively.

Personal Fouls and Unnecessary Roughness penalties that occur... blah blah blah...

Easy to write, easy to understand.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 06:18pm
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Here it is, just insert "personal" into 8-2-2:

If an opponent of the scoring team commits a personal foul (other than
unsportsmanlike conduct on a nonplayer foul) during a down in which a touchdown
is scored and there was not a change in possession during the down, A
may accept the results of the play and choose enforcement of the penalty:
a. On the try, or
b. On the subsequent kickoff.

With this change, it's also advisable to delete the parenthetical remark, which no longer makes sense (UNS is not a PF).

Modify 8-2-3 in the same way.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
However, when you start making exceptions to the rules, that's when it gets screwed up. For that reason, the Fed isn't fond of exceptions. That's why the rule is written the way it is.
And the NFHS would be well advised to simply point at the NCAA rulebook and say, "we're going to that." I can't think of anything (other than blocking below the waist, which is a disaster in NCAA) where the NFHS rule is better.

We had defensive holding against an eligible receiver on a touchdown play (where the ball was thrown to a different receiver). There's no good reason to allow the TD *and* penalize 10 yards on the kickoff. It makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 06:40am
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We had a call in our game Friday that was a TD and a DPI. The DPI was assessed on the kickoff and the coach on my side (B at the time) went ballistic about A being able to take both the TD and penalty. I explained to him that it changed a couple of years ago and this is the way it's supposed to be enforced now. My R told him the same thing. I'm not sure if he believed us or not, but he at least didn't dwell on it after the KO.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 07:50am
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Originally Posted by jchamp View Post
Has there been any data come back yet on how many more/fewer kickoffs are returned this year compared to last year? I'm wondering if moving the kicking line and the touchback placement has had an appreciable affect in that regard, since that was the justification for all the moves.

I think the "helmet coming off" rule has resulted in the intended affect, though. I've only seen one helmet come off in my high school games this year, and it was one that we could tell was loose before the game even started but the bull-headed ACs wouldn't tighten his straps.
There is more than 1 official on the rules committee. I don't believe it's a majority but it's enough to have input and influence. We are represented by our state sport commissioner who has officiating only as a small part of his role.

You must work in Texas if you are asking about the kickoff spot changing. That's an NCAA-only change. I'm sure it's had an affect on D1 games but I think we've only had 4 or 5 touchbacks the entire season in our D3 games. The 5-yard head start has probably had more of an impact at our level.

The only thing the helmet rule has done is create more whining from players who can't tighten their helmets that it's getting ripped off. We had 1 player lose his helmet 3 times in 1 quarter! Two of them were on back to back plays he was in. I think the penalty will need to be harsher because these players don't seem to get it. I thought it would eliminate the helmets popping off but the rate seems to be the same or higher.
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