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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 02:19pm
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Papa's Got A Brand New Bag (James Brown, 1965) ...

There's a new twist on our local board this coming season. We can request from our assignment commissioner that we only get assigned boys games, only girls games, or both. No promises, he'll do the best he can to accommodate our requests.

In the past, we've had a few guys, older, with some orthopedic problems, "unofficially" request, and be granted, only girls games (does that mean girls get officials skewed toward the older, and slower (and maybe fatter, and out of shape) end of the spectrum).

I'm wondering if this is an off shoot from our big change last year. Previous to last year, if our guys made both the boys and girls state tournament list (coaches vote), they could work both genders. Last year, if they made both lists, they had to chose only one gender, allowing some of our up and coming guys to work the tournament, those guys who, in previous years, would be sitting out the tournament (probably added about a dozen local guys to work state tournament games). Of course, this also meant that some of our "best" officials wouldn't work the gender they they didn't select. This was a highly contentious issue that made for some interesting, and very long meetings. The "new way" was the way that all the other five local Connecticut IAABO boards had been working state tournament games, we had been an outlier for many, many years.

I guess that this means that we'll get some guys who want to be regular season "specialists", boys specialists, or girl specialists, hoping to get enough one gender coach votes to make the tournament list. The more girls games you work, the more votes your likely to get, and the same for boys.

Maybe some female officials will want to only work girls games, providing role models for girls that may want to try officiating as adults (my daughter played basketball for about six years at a very high level and only saw one female official in all of those games).

Not personally, but in general, for the good of the cause, I have mixed feelings about choosing boys or girls for the regular season, and about being forced to chose boys or girls for the for the state tournament.

It's always nice to get choices. It may be nice to get some new blood in the state tournament.

But is there any chance that the girls will end up getting short changed (not getting the best officials) for the regular season, and/or the state tournament?

In have two daughters who played sports in high school, one of those in college, I'm a modern Title IX feminist type of guy, and something about this, I can't quite put my finger on it, bothers me?

I'm probably looking at this more from the female student athlete's side, rather than the official's side.

What would Gloria Steinem say?

Should I be allowed to request only games with mostly black players? Or mostly white players? Only at big schools? Only at small schools? Not out in farm country? Only at Catholic schools? Not at Catholic schools? Not at deaf schools?

Don't all of these kids deserve the best officials available at that date and time?

Should mostly white officials be assigned to mostly white games? Should mostly black officials be assigned to mostly black games? Should mostly Catholic officials be assigned to Catholic school games? Should mostly female officials be assigned to girls games?

Again, don't all of these kids deserve the best officials available at that date and time, regardless of the gender of the players, or the officials?

I find this issue to be quite confusing, I'm fighting with myself, I can't put it all into words (though I certainly tried), and it gives me a headache thinking about it.

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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 19, 2018 at 03:38pm.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 02:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...

But is there any chance that the girls will end up getting short changed (not getting the best officials) for the regular season, and/or the state tournament?
....
I'm thinking yes, that will be a residual effect. But it also might open up opportunities for some younger, up-and-coming officials to work some higher profile games on the girls side.

What would be interesting is if a female official were to request only boys games.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 03:29pm
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The Plot Thickens ...

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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I'm thinking yes, that will be a residual effect. But it also might open up opportunities for some younger, up-and-coming officials to work some higher profile games on the girls side.
Good thought.

Thanks for reading my lengthy post. I probably can't disagree with anyone's opinion because I can clearly see both sides of this issue, from the standpoint of a student athlete, and from the standpoint of an official, from the "choice is good" side, and from the "best official" gets the game side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
What would be interesting is if a female official were to request only boys games.
The plot thickens.

What happens when some principals (many female), athletic directors (many female), and coaches of girls teams (both male, and female) find out that some of our best officials can't be assigned to their girls games because some of the best officials have opted out of working girls regular season games?

What happens when some boys coaches who voted for a great officials (who worked both genders regular season) find out that some great officials aren't working the boys state tournament because these great officials were forced to pick a gender and decided to work girls tournament games (maybe with the hope of advancing to higher rounds)?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 19, 2018 at 03:51pm.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:00pm
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I can prove that the girls games get worse officiating in my area. The association gives all officials a rating. Let's say those numbers are 1-5 with 1 being the best.
It is a simple process to compare the quality of officiating on the games. Take the ratings of the officials and sum them. The lower the total, the better that the crew rates. If after doing the math, the boys crews average 5.2 and girls crews average 6.3, we have quantitatively demonstrated that worse officials are being provided for the girls contests.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:36pm
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When I saw the title of this thread being posted from by an "associate" of mine from CT where I (because I am from Youngstown, Ohio) have a number of "friends", I thought it was about large officiating bags which can be very useful for other activities.

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Wed Sep 19, 2018 at 04:45pm. Reason: Corrected grammar.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:39pm
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Watch Out For The Black Helicopters ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I can prove that the girls games get worse officiating in my area. The association gives all officials a rating. The lower the total, the better that the crew rates. If after doing the math, the boys crews average 5.2 and girls crews average 6.3, we have quantitatively demonstrated that worse officials are being provided for the girls contests.
And your willing to put this in writing? Where all with access to the internet can see it?

What if your school principals see this? What if your school athletic directors see this? What if coaches of your girls teams see this? What if girl players in your area see this? What if the parents of girls players in your area see this? Some of them may be attorneys. What if someone for the American Civil Liberties Union sees this? What if a Title IX coordinator sees this?

And worse, what if Gloria Steinem sees this? Do you really want to deal with a former Playboy bunny?



I hope that your real name isn't Nevadaref, and that you really don't live in Nevada. Even then, they'll still find you. Right after they find the high level White House official that wrote that anonymous op-ed piece in the New York Times. They'll find him, and they'll find you. Watch out for the black helicopters.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 19, 2018 at 04:41pm.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:45pm
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I am so happy I don't have to put up with this nonsense in Illinois. If I had to work girls games, I would never have started officiating high school basketball. It is pretty obvious in the Chicago area that the overall quality of girls officials is significantly lower than the boys officials. Most of the men doing high school girls games in this area are doing them because they were not good enough to get boys games or a full schedule of boys games.

And who cares what the principals, athletic directors, coaches, or Gloria Steinem thinks. As an independent contractor, I get to choose for whom and when I work. If they want better officials, they should make their product better.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:49pm
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Potato Blight ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
When I saw the title of this thread being posted from by an "associate" of mine from CT where I (because I am from Youngstown, Ohio) have a number of "friends", large officiating bags can be very useful for other activities.
You mean your friends in East Haven, Connecticut. It has the highest percentage if Italian Americans in the state with the highest percentage of Italian Americans. As a little tyke, I lived there. The only Irish family in town. They made us sit in the back of the church on Sundays. The doctor always checked me for potato blight, "just in case".
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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
You mean your friends in East Haven, Connecticut. It has the highest percentage if Italian Americans in the state with the highest percentage of Italian Americans. As a little tyke, I lived there. The only Irish family in town. They made us sit in the back of the church on Sundays. The doctor always checked me for potato blight, "just in case".

I always thought that you were a "friend" of Whitey Bulger and moved from MA to CT to look after his "business" interests, .

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Ohio High School Athletic Association
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Toledo, Ohio
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 04:54pm
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Good For The Game ...

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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I am so happy I don't have to put up with this nonsense in Illinois. If I had to work girls games, I would never have started officiating high school basketball. It is pretty obvious in the Chicago area that the overall quality of girls officials is significantly lower than the boys officials. Most of the men doing high school girls games in this area are doing them because they were not good enough to get boys games or a full schedule of boys games.
That's the point of view I wanted to hear. And I get it I get it 100%. I can also see the other side, but I still get it. Why should I work games I really don't want to work. Maybe I'll put less effort in the game if I really don't want to be there. Is that good for the game?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 05:00pm
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Magically Delicious ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I always thought that you were a "friend" of Whitey Bulger and moved from MA to CT to look after his "business" interests.
If you live in East Haven, and want a "slice", just stick out your hand and it appears. You never have to go very far.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 05:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I can prove that the girls games get worse officiating in my area. The association gives all officials a rating. Let's say those numbers are 1-5 with 1 being the best.
It is a simple process to compare the quality of officiating on the games. Take the ratings of the officials and sum them. The lower the total, the better that the crew rates. If after doing the math, the boys crews average 5.2 and girls crews average 6.3, we have quantitatively demonstrated that worse officials are being provided for the girls contests.
"Worse officiating" can mean different things. e.g. An official can be completely competent for both genders but simply can't keep up with boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I am so happy I don't have to put up with this nonsense in Illinois. If I had to work girls games, I would never have started officiating high school basketball. It is pretty obvious in the Chicago area that the overall quality of girls officials is significantly lower than the boys officials. Most of the men doing high school girls games in this area are doing them because they were not good enough to get boys games or a full schedule of boys games.

And who cares what the principals, athletic directors, coaches, or Gloria Steinem thinks. As an independent contractor, I get to choose for whom and when I work. If they want better officials, they should make their product better.
Unfortunately no choice here in SC. Work both genders or don't work. Games are assigned as G/B DHs.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 05:04pm
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Not In Connecticut, No Such Animal ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
No choice here in SC. You work doubleheaders (girls then boys) or you don't work.
Certainly makes it nice and simple.

So, let me think, the boys get the "tired" officials? Parents of girls have to rush home from work to see the game, but parents of boys can just leisurely drive home, get a bite, maybe a "slice", and go to the game?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 19, 2018 at 05:12pm.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 05:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If you live in East Haven, and want a "slice", just stick out your hand and it appears. You never have to go very far.

I don't have to put my hand out. People just know to bring me my "slice". But I do miss the good old days when "whacking" some meant something other than giving a HC a TF! LOL!

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2018, 05:08pm
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Sometimes ...

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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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