Papa's Got A Brand New Bag (James Brown, 1965) ...

[Rich]

I assign varsity games only for 24 schools. I can hire whoever I want.

There are a few officials where I will honor a boys-only request. I know these officials, many of them work college for an assigner who will not allow them to work any girls/women hoops. They're good people, they ask in the right way, and they appreciate what they do get from me.

There are a few officials who have asked for boys only because they see the first group getting boys only -- and I told them if they don't work girls, they aren't getting anything. They haven't earned that from me or other assigners here (one crew I remember had about 4 years experience). No skin off my whatever.

I've always worked both. The one year I decided to only work boys games, I got assigned to work the state tournament for girls. At that point I simply started working girls games again. The conversations with assigners here were awkward, too.

How do I feel about the whole "girls officials are worse" thing?

Regarding ratings -- if you put the same people from boys games onto girls games, their ratings would be worse. That's my experience -- my boys ratings are considerably higher than my girls ratings EVERY YEAR. I won't call every little bump a foul and many of those coaches expect that.

Furthermore, I find it much easier to work a boys game. Much easier to get into a rhythm, much easier to make a call/no-call decision on contact, etc.

Finally, as someone who has now assigned for 5 years -- those who think they're great officials aren't always so in the eyes of the schools and coaches. And I've weeded out people who really don't want to be at my smaller schools, too.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I know these officials, many of them work college for an assigner who will not allow them to work any girls/women hoops.

"Independent contractors"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

"Independent contractors"

Exactly. And these are D3 assigners, too, who think way too highly of themselves.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

Exactly. And these are D3 assigners, too, who think way too highly of themselves.

Thankfully small college assigners in this region don't make those demands. Would be asinine given that high school games in GA, SC, and NC are all assigned as G/B DHs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Exactly. And these are D3 assigners, too, who think way too highly of themselves.

Is that any different than high school assignors that tell people what they have to do in order to work their conferences? Any small college has its own world associated with it. They have a right to make some requirements when people that work multiple levels likely work their leagues. Also, many college leagues have an association with some other levels. I know many D3 women's leagues in the midwest are run by assignors that assign D1 directly. So when you attend her camp, she considers you for her D3 league as well as her D2 league and major college assignments. I work for a couple of people that are D1 assignors that brings the Big Ten Supervisor to their camps or trainings. I have a couple of people I know that just got hired in the Big Ten consortium and they had been working D3, D2, NAIA for years as well as going to the Big Ten camps. I would not quite say they think that highly of themselves, they use it as an evaluation zone for their bigger assignments.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

"Independent contractors"

If they set the terms of the contract they are giving you, you still have the choice to decide that you do not want to work. That is your prerogative to do that either way.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they set the terms of the contract they are giving you, you still have the choice to decide that you do not want to work. That is your prerogative to do that either way.

Peace

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

I so enjoy the twisting and turning of people who try to defend the "independent contractor" thing as if it's clear....or really independent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I so enjoy the twisting and turning of people who try to defend the "independent contractor" thing as if it's clear....or really independent.

Does the official pay the FICA payroll tax of 12.4% of his officiating income, after expenses, when filing his income tax return? (One test for being an independent contractor.)

I just visited a few websites (Turbo Tax, Legal Zoom, IRS) and discovered that whether one is an employee, self-employed, or an independent contractor, is a very complex question, one reputable website stating that qualifications are "not set in stone".

I let my accountants, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe, figure out all this paperwork for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

There are a lot of requirements we have that are not clearly stated. Just like at a job interview you are not asked to show up many times in a suit and tie, but if you don't then it might influence you being hired. I get what you are saying, but that kind of misses the point. Even if they did not say that to officials, there is a big drop off from a D3 game that might be very physical to a girls game were you might not get anyone in the game that can dribble. So it often does not have to be said, but for my game it is better I stick with Men's and Boy's games. I have said this before, there is a different attitude about what you call in a girls game than a boys game. That is clear if you have done both. Many college assignors who have a much smaller staff can make some demands because they can find people willing to do what is asked of them if you choose to not fill that role.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are a lot of requirements we have that are not clearly stated. Just like at a job interview you are not asked to show up many times in a suit and tie, but if you don't then it might influence you being hired. I get what you are saying, but that kind of misses the point. Even if they did not say that to officials, there is a big drop off from a D3 game that might be very physical to a girls game were you might not get anyone in the game that can dribble. So it often does not have to be said, but for my game it is better I stick with Men's and Boy's games. I have said this before, there is a different attitude about what you call in a girls game than a boys game. That is clear if you have done both. Many college assignors who have a much smaller staff can make some demands because they can find people willing to do what is asked of them if you choose to not fill that role.

Peace

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy.

The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy.

I do not think the issue is right or wrong, it is whether this is the reality or not. Just like your state tells officials they must work both girls and boys basketball. Is that right? I am sure that alone makes officials make other decisions about what they work. But if you are going to work playoffs or many high school games I assume that is required and not many choices can be made right in that system?

Originally Posted by SC Official

The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

But many independent contractor laws are state laws, not IRS regulations, at least in some details. I mentioned before that an association got in trouble for paying directly officials and they did not follow the state filing laws. I am not under the impression the IRS even got involved in this situation. Remember we file state and Federal taxes.

My point is at the end of the day, we ultimately decide what we do. We can accept the terms that are given or reject them. Many on a much smaller case we can decide if we want to accept a contract for one level or another based on many factors (travel, partners, timing).

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy. The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

I first became aware of basketball officials calling ourselves "independent contractors" when I first joined the Forum. I believe that my accountant classifies my officiating income as "self-employed", but I really don't pay to much attention to stuff like this, that's why I pay him to do my taxes.

In regard to our legal rights, and the legality of what assigners often do, and in regard to taxes, should we stop calling ourselves independent contractors, or are we fooling ourselves?

Many of us are not accountants, or lawyers, in our day jobs, are we "out of our league" discussing this? Are there any accountants, or lawyers, on the Forum who can set us on the "straight and narrow", especially in regard to federal standards?

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

Finally, as someone who has now assigned for 5 years -- those who think they're great officials aren't always so in the eyes of the schools and coaches. And I've weeded out people who really don't want to be at my smaller schools, too.

We have plenty like that here, and many of them go far in the postseason. But the schools can scratch a generous number of officials (I think 8?) so that kind of solves the issue of schools/coaches not liking certain officials.