Papa's Got A Brand New Bag (James Brown, 1965) ...

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they set the terms of the contract they are giving you, you still have the choice to decide that you do not want to work. That is your prerogative to do that either way.

Peace

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

I so enjoy the twisting and turning of people who try to defend the "independent contractor" thing as if it's clear....or really independent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I so enjoy the twisting and turning of people who try to defend the "independent contractor" thing as if it's clear....or really independent.

Does the official pay the FICA payroll tax of 12.4% of his officiating income, after expenses, when filing his income tax return? (One test for being an independent contractor.)

I just visited a few websites (Turbo Tax, Legal Zoom, IRS) and discovered that whether one is an employee, self-employed, or an independent contractor, is a very complex question, one reputable website stating that qualifications are "not set in stone".

I let my accountants, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe, figure out all this paperwork for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Never seen a contract for a college assigner that says "you may not work high school girls games."

Sure you can choose not to work for a certain assigner. I can quit my real job whenever I want for whatever reason without repercussion. Difference is my employer has a legal right to tell me who I can and cannot provide my services to.

There are a lot of requirements we have that are not clearly stated. Just like at a job interview you are not asked to show up many times in a suit and tie, but if you don't then it might influence you being hired. I get what you are saying, but that kind of misses the point. Even if they did not say that to officials, there is a big drop off from a D3 game that might be very physical to a girls game were you might not get anyone in the game that can dribble. So it often does not have to be said, but for my game it is better I stick with Men's and Boy's games. I have said this before, there is a different attitude about what you call in a girls game than a boys game. That is clear if you have done both. Many college assignors who have a much smaller staff can make some demands because they can find people willing to do what is asked of them if you choose to not fill that role.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are a lot of requirements we have that are not clearly stated. Just like at a job interview you are not asked to show up many times in a suit and tie, but if you don't then it might influence you being hired. I get what you are saying, but that kind of misses the point. Even if they did not say that to officials, there is a big drop off from a D3 game that might be very physical to a girls game were you might not get anyone in the game that can dribble. So it often does not have to be said, but for my game it is better I stick with Men's and Boy's games. I have said this before, there is a different attitude about what you call in a girls game than a boys game. That is clear if you have done both. Many college assignors who have a much smaller staff can make some demands because they can find people willing to do what is asked of them if you choose to not fill that role.

Peace

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy.

The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy.

I do not think the issue is right or wrong, it is whether this is the reality or not. Just like your state tells officials they must work both girls and boys basketball. Is that right? I am sure that alone makes officials make other decisions about what they work. But if you are going to work playoffs or many high school games I assume that is required and not many choices can be made right in that system?

Originally Posted by SC Official

The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

But many independent contractor laws are state laws, not IRS regulations, at least in some details. I mentioned before that an association got in trouble for paying directly officials and they did not follow the state filing laws. I am not under the impression the IRS even got involved in this situation. Remember we file state and Federal taxes.

My point is at the end of the day, we ultimately decide what we do. We can accept the terms that are given or reject them. Many on a much smaller case we can decide if we want to accept a contract for one level or another based on many factors (travel, partners, timing).

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But many independent contractor laws are state laws, not IRS regulations ...

I was just on the IRS website and they make a "big deal" of this, especially if one doesn't pay one's FICA payroll tax. As you stated, state laws may vary from federal laws, but one must adhere to both laws (adding to the complexity of this issue), plus I'm sure that the IRS works in conjunction with states in regard to audits, etc.

Our assigner reminds us every year that his records of games assigned, fees, etc., will be open to IRS inspection if asked. Every year, more and more Connecticut schools are using Arbiter Pay, and Arbiter Pay has also made it clear that their records are open to IRS inspection.

The IRS has a real problem with one calling themselves something (employee, self-employed, independent contractor) when they aren't, and with employers calling those who work for them something that they're not.

The IRS had no problems putting Al Capone in prison. Hopefully we're just "small potatoes", not worth their time, energy, resources, etc.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just because college assigners have the flexibility to tell their officials what games they may not work doesn't make it right, or legal. Telling "independent contractors" who they can and cannot provide their services to and then saying "If you don't like it, I don't need you" is completely the opposite of what an independent contractor is supposed to be. I'm not expecting it to change, just calling out the hypocrisy. The IRS would have a field day with assigners that impose requirements like Rich mentioned, if an official really wanted to make a big deal about it.

I first became aware of basketball officials calling ourselves "independent contractors" when I first joined the Forum. I believe that my accountant classifies my officiating income as "self-employed", but I really don't pay to much attention to stuff like this, that's why I pay him to do my taxes.

In regard to our legal rights, and the legality of what assigners often do, and in regard to taxes, should we stop calling ourselves independent contractors, or are we fooling ourselves?

Many of us are not accountants, or lawyers, in our day jobs, are we "out of our league" discussing this? Are there any accountants, or lawyers, on the Forum who can set us on the "straight and narrow", especially in regard to federal standards?