Mechanics and clock situations (Video)

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BigT

Question

Situation where a team calls a timeout with 10 seconds to go in a game. They set up their winning play. They inbound and start that winning play and you notice the clock isnt running. You decide to kill it and start them over at 10 seconds and inbounding the ball. Would you consider giving them a time out to redraw a play since they showed their cards on what play they were doing and now the defense knows what they are running and better defend it. Because the clock operator fell asleep?

I would not start them over at 10 seconds as time had elapsed.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

I would not start them over at 10 seconds as time had elapsed.

At what time would you restart? Why?

[ilyazhito]

The rulebook says "If an official has definite knowledge of the time elapsed (e.g. by a count), the clock shall be reset to that time". In NCAA rules, at least .3 seconds have to pass when the ball is legally touched inbounds. By analogy, I would subtract .3 seconds, as the error was realized instantly (the time would be 9.7). If the clock does not use 10ths, the clock would be reset to 9 seconds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

By analogy, I would subtract .3 seconds, as the error was realized instantly (the time would be 9.7). If the clock does not use 10ths, the clock would be reset to 9 seconds.

You would do that in an NCAA game or an NFHS game?

[UNIgiantslayers]

Didn’t we beat this horse a couple of months ago?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You would do that in an NCAA game or an NFHS game?

NCAA, I would subtract 0.3 automatically. NFHS, I would do so as well, if the officials instantly realize that the clock failed to start. Since NFHS is silent on this situation, I will use a solution that is there: the NCAA solution.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Since NFHS is silent on this situation ...

Silent?

Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2009-10
SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)

[ilyazhito]

What I meant is that NFHS has no explicit coverage in the rules for a situation where the clock starts and is immediately stopped, or where the clock is immediately stopped because it failed to start. NCAA does, and that is why I would use the NCAA rule to cover this gap. The solution to (c) in your example says that 10ths of a second need to be taken off. I would take off .3, because it takes that much time to catch a ball and do something else with it (by rule, one cannot catch and shoot with .3 or less on the clock).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

NCAA, I would subtract 0.3 automatically. NFHS, I would do so as well, if the officials instantly realize that the clock failed to start. Since NFHS is silent on this situation, I will use a solution that is there: the NCAA solution.

The NFHS isn't silent on the situation. You're making up your own rule. The NFHS says you can take time off based on definitely knowledge and definite knowledge is comprised of counts that you may have had. That is it. If you don't have a count (visible or mental), you don't take time off. Period. You don't say it must have been at least X because the NCAA does it. That just is not supported by rule (in NFHS).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The NFHS says you can take time off based on definitely knowledge and definite knowledge is comprised of counts that you may have had. That is it. If you don't have a count (visible or mental), you don't take time off. Period.

Except when the NFHS says that you can:

Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2009-10
SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)