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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:29am
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I've never had an issue with these types of things. And I disagree that there is one way that is the "right for the game of basketball" as someone suggested.

High school games follow NFHS rules and (at least in my area) you have an assignor and rules interpreter who define an approach that they want. Don't try and take your HS approach and apply it to a AAU game or an adult rec league or a 5th grade CYO game -- or a college game for that matter.

My goal in an AAU type game is consistency of calls. We may not adhere to the strict NFHS points of emphasis on hand checking, for example, but that's fine because its not an NFHS game where I'm expected to call things a certain way.

I also try to find some value in these types of games. I've found that working adult rec games or AAU games, for example, has helped me with having a patient whistle, watching plays start, develop, and finish, and with evaluating advantage/disadvantage.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I've never had an issue with these types of things. And I disagree that there is one way that is the "right for the game of basketball" as someone suggested.

High school games follow NFHS rules and (at least in my area) you have an assignor and rules interpreter who define an approach that they want. Don't try and take your HS approach and apply it to a AAU game or an adult rec league or a 5th grade CYO game -- or a college game for that matter.

My goal in an AAU type game is consistency of calls. We may not adhere to the strict NFHS points of emphasis on hand checking, for example, but that's fine because its not an NFHS game where I'm expected to call things a certain way.

I also try to find some value in these types of games. I've found that working adult rec games or AAU games, for example, has helped me with having a patient whistle, watching plays start, develop, and finish, and with evaluating advantage/disadvantage.
OK, my question is simple. Then what standards would you use if you say you do not use strict NFHS interpretations? The NCAA has the same exact interpretations as the NF (Guess where the NF got their standard from?) Even the NBA has similar philosophies when it comes to plays on the perimeter, the post is just a little different for a lot of reasons.

Peace
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Pay more for officials, and use 3-man crews. 3-man crews are better for off-ball coverage, game management (preventing the dumb stuff), and seeing illegal action than 2-man crews are. This would be especially useful for AAU ball.
OK young fellow.......time to calm down. This is AAU for and nobody cares about three man. The directors only care about entry fees and the last game starting on time. There is no organized ball, with the exception of EYBL and Adidas Gauntlet. Whoever gets the rebound, dribbles up court and jacks up a bad three. Coaches are the same people screaming in the stands in the winter (parents )...Three man, four man it won't change the culture.

I worked an event this weekend 16 and 17 and my partner only works rec ball. Every blocked shot he called a foul for "body"......You can try to be a purist but the reality is if your willing to work be ready for all the crap that comes with it...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:38am
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Originally Posted by BrentD2222 View Post
I hate doing some AAU tournaments because I feel like the organizers pressure the refs to only keep the games moving. IMHO I've seen games end up taking longer and being far more out of control due to unruly behavior due to so many no calls. They end up becoming rock fights and getting very messy down the stretch.

I've been ashamed of some of the games I've been part of due to partners unwillingness to blow their wistle. I hear comments like "I'm not calling shit, I just want to go home, this is my last game".

I attended my son's game this past weekend. While I was not officiating many of the parents know I am an official, so I was forced to field a lot of questions which I either correctly defend the on court officials or explain how angles and views of what happens are a lot different on the court. The game was a shit show. One ref was very solid. The other refused to blow his wistle and also refused to switch ends on any calls. Keep in mind my son's team won the game so this isn't sour grapes. It was concern for player safety and enjoyment of the game. With the exception of one player on the other team who very loudly enjoyed the shit show taunting fans, players, the coach etc. I don't think anyone coaches, fans, players enjoyed that game (except for that douche bag player).

What if anything should be done when you observe an official clearly not caring and putting players at jepordy. He no-called some of the most insane two hand shoves. Trips, two hand shoves... flagrent fouls that would be ejections or min. techs at any scholastic game. Once the player in question swiped at the testicles of another player knocking to his knees. The ref that was in question let out a small chuckle, his only response.

The parents all said we do not yell at the refs out of respect for you knowing you are an official, but when they are not even trying how can we stand for that. I didn't know what to say.

PS - The solid official started the game alone for the first 5 minutes, he was young, but solid. The older guy finally showed up and clearly wanted to go home early was in the young offials ear influencing him (peer-pressure) to lay off his whistle.

It for sure solidified my unwant to officiate AAU tournaments. Especially those that are not run by organizers that care about anything other then the revenue.

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Brent,

Sit by yourself. This is no difference than a high school umpire going to his kids 10U game and people getting on the ump for a bad zone. Your there as a dad. Support your son. That is what is important.

I did an event this weekend where a guy who played for Lefty Driesell at University of Maryland was watching his son ( 6"6") 8th grade. He detests this crap so much he sits alone. Dude was recruited by Terry Holland, Dean Smith and Lefty. He gets it, it is a neccessary evil. Not worth it to have your son's two guard dad, who is an IT guy to be asking you for an explanation when a kid fumbles the ball why a travel isn't called.....
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:47pm
I got a Basketball Jones!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
Brent,

Sit by yourself. This is no difference than a high school umpire going to his kids 10U game and people getting on the ump for a bad zone. Your there as a dad. Support your son. That is what is important.

I did an event this weekend where a guy who played for Lefty Driesell at University of Maryland was watching his son ( 6"6") 8th grade. He detests this crap so much he sits alone. Dude was recruited by Terry Holland, Dean Smith and Lefty. He gets it, it is a neccessary evil. Not worth it to have your son's two guard dad, who is an IT guy to be asking you for an explanation when a kid fumbles the ball why a travel isn't called.....
Flashback!!

Lefty, Dean, Terry Holland?

Are you sure he wasn't supporting his GRANDSON?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
OK young fellow.......time to calm down. This is AAU for and nobody cares about three man. The directors only care about entry fees and the last game starting on time. There is no organized ball, with the exception of EYBL and Adidas Gauntlet. Whoever gets the rebound, dribbles up court and jacks up a bad three. Coaches are the same people screaming in the stands in the winter (parents )...Three man, four man it won't change the culture.

I worked an event this weekend 16 and 17 and my partner only works rec ball. Every blocked shot he called a foul for "body"......You can try to be a purist but the reality is if your willing to work be ready for all the crap that comes with it...
I thought that AAU was actually about basketball, and officials actually cared... In that case my comments would have been relevant, because 3 man = a cleaner, safer game, because more fouls can be seen and called.

However, now I realize that AAU basketball (with the exception of some leagues, is a mix between a zoo and a circus, with very little resemblance to actual basketball. If they are not willing to provide proper crews, at least give some training to AAU officials, to avoid situations like the one with your partner. Some officials there are entertaining, others are embarrassing.

I'll stay out of this zoo, and maybe Brent and other posters will as well.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:47pm
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AAU is about money. From the organizers to the assignors. It's how much they can pack in their pockets while actually doing as little as possible. The coaches and parents are out of control. I was one of the very few that took 0 crap. I have tossed coaches, parents, players and declared forfeits. It's like the wild west, and if you give an inch it only gets worse very fast.

There are a few properly run ones but it's rare.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 04:39pm
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Never Sold My Soul To The Devil ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'd do it only to see more plays,
... the only reason why I did Catholic middle school games for over thirty years.

Catholic middle school games were never for the money, but I would never would have done them for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
Don't try and take your HS approach and apply it to ... a 5th grade CYO game
With the exception of a few mechanics issues, (don't switch on every foul, throw the ball across the lane on frontcourt endline throwins, etc.), we did use a high school approach in these Catholic middle school games because that's what the assigner, and the league, wanted.

Even at the very beginning, when I was doing mens recreation, youth recreation, and travel games, for both the money, and the experience, I always officiated with a high school approach. Even for the short time that our local board assigned AAU games.

I never sold my soul to the devil. Never.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Apr 19, 2018 at 06:59pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 05:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I thought that AAU was actually about basketball, and officials actually cared.
DEFINITELY not. I always try to explain it to people like this: If "real basketball" (say, a legitimate boys varsity game) is a 10 in terms of site supervision, game administration, proper infrastructure, rules enforcement, sportsmanship expectations, officiating accountability, etc., AAU basketball is AT BEST a 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
However, now I realize that AAU basketball is a mix between a zoo and a circus, with very little resemblance to actual basketball.
Atta boy ... exactly!

But, like another poster said, if you go in with the proper mindset, you CAN often get something out of it as an official, like seeing more plays, encountering more scenarios, applying new techniques and staying in shape, to name a few.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 19, 2018, 06:23pm
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I did AAU for the money in college. Because $150-$200 in cash in Southwest, VA is a hell of a lot. Nowadays? Screw that. I'm working travel soccer, which is actually organized and pays a hell of a lot better. And I need that money for camps.

In fact, camps are the only times you'll catch me doing AAU ball. And it's an evil thing as everyone here already knows. I got a buddy who organizes these things, and while his goal is to rake in bills, he at least ponies up for security and safe facilities.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 20, 2018, 12:49pm
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Last year in a local AAU tournament championship game a kid intentional fouled a kid at the end of the game and then screamed at me for calling an intentional and got a Technical foul. Final 1.5 minutes and it cost his team the game. Dad came after me after the game and wanted to fight me in the parking lot. I do not do championship local AAU games any more. Not worth it.

The flip side is next month I will be at the largest tournament in the world 1100+ teams. Those assignors want us to blow even if it puts the day behind. If you dont blow you end up with a game like that. I take my friends so I dont have to work a game like that with some knucklehead. That assignor would fire him on the spot. That assignor tells us every morning meeting to call stuff.

I would tell those parents to take out their phone record some plays and tell that AAU orginzation these are going to your national office. Our team is not going to return until player safety is something that is important to you. That how is this play on video not an ejection. Those 20 parents are in his face things will change.

Just my 2 cents.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 20, 2018, 04:05pm
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For refs out there reading these posts, I would not necessary exclude AAU games from your schedule. Yeah, they can be awful as people note but I have been to games that are played at a very high level and things are well-organized. I also make a point of limiting the number of games I will do. For CYO and AAU, the assignors only have a certain number of refs, often a lot of games and things can get out of hand easily. I've reffed with people who might be doing their 10th game of the day. It's ridiculous. It can be a roll of the dice but for me it's worked out fine by limiting my games and keeping an even-temperament throughout.

I think that aaubingo site takes a lot of cheap shots.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 20, 2018, 05:14pm
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It Wouldn't Be Pretty ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicalTropical View Post
... who might be doing their 10th game of the day.
Lingchi (Chinese: Death by a thousand cuts).

Even many, many years ago when I was younger, lighter, and faster, I probably wouldn't be able to do more than three, or four games without compromising some of my running, and positioning. Even if I could get past the physical challenges of doing more games, I know that the mental challenges of concentrating on the game would start to suffer after three, or four games.

When I first started I would do three local high school age recreation games every Monday, and Wednesday night (usual off nights for Connecticut high school basketball). I did them for the money (my three kids were college bound) and for the experience. I treated these games like any of my high school games, and I found that by the second half of the third game I was physically, and mentally, exhausted, just looking at the clock to see when I would be able to go home.

Sure I could do ten games if I could just hang around as the trail at the division line, never run up as the new trail, never switch on fouls, and pick and choose what I would call, or not call, based on my mood, the score, the kids, etc. It wouldn't be pretty, and I wouldn't be proud of myself, which is why I would never do it. Never. Ever. I have way too much pride in my officiating skills to do such a thing.

But I also understand that some guys really need the money to make student loan payments, car payments, credit card payments, rent, mortgage, etc., or maybe they owe a coaching friend, or an assigner, a favor, making it almost impossible to say no.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Apr 22, 2018 at 06:22am.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 21, 2018, 02:32pm
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At a tournament honking of this thread. Well, the game was a blow out, but really? Team bringing up the ball, and the lead ref is turned around looking at the game on the next court. OK, boring game, take a quick look? Uh, no. As the offense ramps up, Ref still has her back to our court. Offense cycles, drive to the hoop—still back to the court. Ref turns back after a shot is taken—and sits down. Oh my. Apparently not even paid enough to pretend to pay attention.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 21, 2018, 05:35pm
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
At a tournament honking of this thread. Well, the game was a blow out, but really? Team bringing up the ball, and the lead ref is turned around looking at the game on the next court. OK, boring game, take a quick look? Uh, no. As the offense ramps up, Ref still has her back to our court. Offense cycles, drive to the hoop—still back to the court. Ref turns back after a shot is taken—and sits down. Oh my. Apparently not even paid enough to pretend to pay attention.
WHAAT!? I don't know whether to laugh or cry when hearing this. Hopefully, no one got hurt because of this official's (in)actions. This would definitely NOT happen at a high school game, because the offender would be suspended, sued, or fired for negligence, if not all the above.
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