"Hey Ref, that's five seconds!"

[bob jenkins]

Even if you only work one level, having a basic understanding of some of the differences at other levels can help you deal with coaches and players (and fans, if appropirate).

Answering a coach's question (or complaint) with "you are right under xxx rules, but in HS, the rule is ...." can go a long way to quell the anger.

[JRutledge]

And what are they going to tell you when you say, "Coach that is an NBA (NCAA/NF) Rule"?

It is not like coaches are real rules experts. They know they are going off of "understanding" not real rules knowledge or study. I had some college coaches during a game this year try to tell me about a clear NBA Rule (I believe they were talking clear path fouls) and when I was adamant about that did not apply to our college game, they shut up for the most part. And I wish I had a dollar every time a slapping of the backboard has a call for the basket to count and I tell them, "This is not Men's college basketball."

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jerkins

Even if you only work one level, having a basic understanding of some of the differences at other levels can help you deal with coaches and players (and fans, if appropriate). Answering a coach's question (or complaint) with "you are right under xxx rules, but in HS, the rule is ...." can go a long way to quell the anger.

Agree, but is it necessary to know all the specific permutations and specific changes of the five second rule in both mens and womens NCAA rules that have occurred over the past ten years?

I did had some basic knowledge of these differences, but I did learn something new today from this thread. As a 100% high school official, is it bad that I learned something new about college rules today from an internet forum? Or should I have already known this?

[Raymond]

The easiest place to find the rule differences is in the back of the rulebook.

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[bucky]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The easiest place to find the rule differences is in the back of the rulebook.

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I always found that chart to be quite silly in that so many differences are omitted. Many (of those that officiate both) think that those listed differences are the only differences and then make mistakes. If I was a college assigner, I would strongly recommend that my officials only officiate college and forget the High School world.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bucky

I always found that chart to be quite silly in that so many differences are omitted. Many (of those that officiate both) think that those listed differences are the only differences and then make mistakes. If I was a college assigner, I would strongly recommend that my officials only officiate college and forget the High School world.

Good idea, but would this be feasible for DIII or JUCO officials who are just getting started in working games under NCAA rules? AFAIK, they have to buy the CCA-approved uniform (more than one, if they work men's and women's basketball), pay for access to the Central Hub ($140 per year for DII/DIII, unless I am mistaken), pay association dues (CBOA for the East Coast), and pay for longer travel than they have usually done at the high school level. I have heard that college football officials operate at a loss, break-even, or small profit for the first few years at the college level, so is the same true for college basketball officials?

I would understand not working high school basketball if I was an official who had moved up to DII/DI and had been receiving a consistent collegiate schedule for multiple years. Then, my high school games would require me to make backward adjustments in mechanics and philosophy, and would require as much conscious effort as college games would for a new JUCO/DIII official. In that case, I would give up working high school, but I am not at that stage yet, personally. I'll need a few years of varsity ball under my belt before I apply to CBOA.

About rules differences, what differences do the charts in the NCAA men's and women's books omit, in your experience?

About the OP, I believe that there are not many closely-guarded counts because the officials are unwilling to apply the count when the ball quickly changes hands from one player to another. Maybe C and T are unwilling to make calls in the gray area between them, and wait until the ball clearly belongs to one official's zone, or the other's. Perhaps many counts end almost as soon as they start, because the player starts dribbling after possessing the ball in a closely guarded situation, or passes off quickly after ending the dribble. In these cases, officials might not have a chance to start the 5 second count. Maybe this becomes a point of emphasis for J.D. Collins and June Courteau next year.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bucky

I always found that chart to be quite silly in that so many differences are omitted. Many (of those that officiate both) think that those listed differences are the only differences and then make mistakes. If I was a college assigner, I would strongly recommend that my officials only officiate college and forget the High School world.

I don't know what most do and I don't know what omissions are in the chart. But if someone only does HS and wants to know what may be different concerning a particular rule, the chart is a pretty reliable place to start.

I learned each rule set and ALWAYS apply them appropriately. I have never misapplied a HS rule in a college game or college rule in s HS game.

As far as only working college, that's a ridiculous premise unless one is working at least 15-20 D1 games.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, guys/gals who are "rulebook" officials master the rules at whatever level they are working. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't know what most do and I don't know what omissions are in the chart. But if someone only does HS and wants to know what may be different concerning a particular rule, the chart is a pretty reliable place to start.

IAABO members get a pregame card every year, and it has the NFHS/NCAAM/NCAAW rule differences on it.

It's the only part of the card I pay any attention to.

If I used the card to run my pregame, it would take a considerable amount of time (it's a very long list) and my partner would throw me under the team bus on our way out the door after out game.

Here's the image from the 2017-18 High School Basketball Rules Simplified & Illustrated, note the proper NFHS technique required of the thrower. I believe that IAABO requires the same technique.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

As a long time women's college official (34 years) and USA Basketball Official (12 years) I have always thought the NCAA Women's Closely Guarded Rule requirement of the Defender being within three feet of the Offensive Player in PC of the Ball and only while the Offensive Player is holding the Ball was the better Rule.

The NCAA Women's Closely Guarded Rule was a NAGWS Rule which was taken from the FIBA Rules.

MTD, Sr.

[crosscountry55]

I wanted to pile on the property tax discussion, but several posters beat me to the punch. Of course property taxes are passed off to renters in some form or another.

MPA Univ of Oklahoma ‘10

I think this thread has run its course, no?


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[Jesse James]

Jeff got it sorted out for us.

[Raymond]

I'm kinda slow so I'm going to make sure I'm understanding all you smug tax experts correctly.

Over here we have a cul-de-sac (call it YourHood) which houses ten $1M homes and 20 public school students who attend the Bluebood school district. One mile away on the other side of the railroad tracks there is a run-down apartment building (MyHood) which has 20 units and 40 public school students who attend the Blue Collar school district. Soooo, the same amount of property taxes are being collected from MyHood as are being collected from YourHood? Really?

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm kinda slow so I'm going to make sure I'm understanding all you smug tax experts correctly.

Over here we have a cul-de-sac (call it YourHood) which houses ten $1M homes and 20 public school students who attend the Bluebood school district. One mile away on the other side of the railroad tracks there is a run-down apartment building (MyHood) which has 20 units and 40 public school students who attend the Blue Collar school district. Soooo, the same amount of property taxes are being collected from MyHood as are being collected from YourHood? Really?

There are heckuva lot of people in this country that, indeed, say this is the way it works.

[bucky]

We went from closely guarded to taxes, lol.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm kinda slow so I'm going to make sure I'm understanding all you smug tax experts correctly.

Over here we have a cul-de-sac (call it YourHood) which houses ten $1M homes and 20 public school students who attend the Bluebood school district. One mile away on the other side of the railroad tracks there is a run-down apartment building (MyHood) which has 20 units and 40 public school students who attend the Blue Collar school district. Soooo, the same amount of property taxes are being collected from MyHood as are being collected from YourHood? Really?

Certainly not the same amount of money but everyone that is paying anything for just about anything is paying some amount that goes to property taxes. It is built into the price. Being hidden in the price is a clever way to keep people form realizing how much tax is really paid.