The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Dixie
Posts: 71
"Hey, 10 seconds didn't go off the clock!"

Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him. Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign, this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:37am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten View Post
Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him. Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign, this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?
Was all of this "explanation" during a time out or other stoppage? If so, I think I'd have brought the stop sign out earlier.

In either case, 2nd stop sign? Stop means stop. "Banter continues" = T.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,035
What MD said, second stop sign??????
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:10am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten View Post
Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him.
Walk away from him, ideally towards the opposite site of the court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten View Post
Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign
Now he has hung himself and everyone knows it. T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten View Post
this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?
You most definitely had to whack him. Whether it's after stop sign 1 or 2 is the question. Waiting until SS2 is fine with me, given the description of your play.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Was all of this "explanation" during a time out or other stoppage? If so, I think I'd have brought the stop sign out earlier.

In either case, 2nd stop sign? Stop means stop. "Banter continues" = T.
Why a second stop sign? One is enough to let everyone in the gym know that he has been warned. Stop obviously doesn't mean stop if you give him a second warning. just my thought

-Josh
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:08am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Second stop sign?

Think of it this way. If you are out driving and you run a stop sign in front of a cop, is he going to wait until you run a second one before giving you a ticket?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 274
Better question - who makes a big deal out of that in the 1st quarter? Always surprises me when coaches are more worried about the technicalities of the call than ensuring their teams can advance the ball up the court.
__________________
"They don't play the game because we show up to officiate it"
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:08pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Steps:
1. Quick explanation.
2.Head down to lead while new T puts ball in play.
3. Now you're 50 feet away, so everyone hears you say, "Coach, the play is over, move on."
4. If he brings it up after that, we're shooting.

This call looks bad, so I might give him a little more rope before advising him to drop it, and I will take an extra second for the explanation. My explanation would include the fact that two different timers started by two different people are bound to start at two different times.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:45pm
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
You most definitely had to whack him. Whether it's after stop sign 1 or 2 is the question. Waiting until SS2 is fine with me, given the description of your play.
The problem with this is that you have invalidated your first stop sign for the rest of the game and possibly the rest of the games you work with this guy. These coaches know what a stop sign is. It means "That's enough, no more"... if they keep going, they are either testing you or they want a T.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 39
Send a message via Yahoo to habram
My Question is how many seconds did go off the clock

10 second count shouldn't be in 7 seconds nor in 15 seconds

The clock time and the official's time should be at least within a few seconds

This happens very often especially when games are close

If a team is losing by many points ,10 secs may be 11 or 12 and that's ok
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:55pm
(Something hilarious)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: These United States
Posts: 1,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by habram View Post
My Question is how many seconds did go off the clock

10 second count shouldn't be in 7 seconds nor in 15 seconds

The clock time and the official's time should be at least within a few seconds

This happens very often especially when games are close

If a team is losing by many points ,10 secs may be 11 or 12 and that's ok
Yes it does, for whatever reason. And our counts aren't by the clock, always. (I'm impressed with the way the NBA makes this work.) NCAA has a good case play just for this type of situation, too, that backs the officials.
__________________
I can't remember the last time I wasn't at least kind-of tired.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Posts: 94
I'm lucky enough to be in a state w/ a shot clock, so (a) it's easy to sync my count up early in the game with the timer - easier than with the game clock, IMO, since the shot clocks are meant to be visible to players during action - and (b) it's also easy if I'm getting near 10 to take a quick glance back to the timer and make sure it reads 25/20 (boys/girls) before I call it. Makes selling this call much easier.

The other edge of the sword is, of course, if the player attains frontcourt status with 24/19 on the timer, and the coach is a smart one, you're going to hear it :-)
__________________
WIAA basketball & Football (Snohomish County, WA)
NWAC & GNAC Women's Basketball
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 766
Sounds like you made he right call. The only area of concern at all for me is "banter continues". I'm not sure what this means, is he talking to you during the play, do you not have a chance to move away? Is the banter hostile, debating/carlifying rules points or attacking? The way I envision it in my head seems like the right call, but I'm imagining banter isn't really banter more demanding or being purposefully arugmentative.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 1,005
If you really want to fun with the coach..."since 10 seconds didn't come off I'll have to correct the time on the clock. Thanks"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
If you really want to fun with the coach..."since 10 seconds didn't come off I'll have to correct the time on the clock. Thanks"
That is great!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NHSF "intentional" vs NCAA "flagarent" terminology Duffman Basketball 17 Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:15pm
Is "the patient whistle" and "possession consequence" ruining the game? fiasco Basketball 46 Fri Dec 02, 2011 08:43am
Are officials allowed to "guess" the amount of time to put on the clock? All_Heart Basketball 1 Mon Nov 30, 2009 09:30am
ABC's "Nightline" examines "worst calls ever" tonight pizanno Basketball 27 Fri Jul 04, 2008 06:08am
Time back on clock? I said "No." bgtg19 Basketball 3 Wed Dec 06, 2006 06:05pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1