"Hey, 10 seconds didn't go off the clock!"

[Chris Whitten]

Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him. Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign, this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him. Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign, this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?

Was all of this "explanation" during a time out or other stoppage? If so, I think I'd have brought the stop sign out earlier.

In either case, 2nd stop sign? Stop means stop. "Banter continues" = T.

[Indianaref]

What MD said, second stop sign??????

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Standard 10 seconds backcourt violation in the first quarter of a JV game. Coach B loudly objecting because "10 seconds didn't go off the clock." Explanation that its on my count doesn't suffice. Coach has apparently been in the rules book as he cites, nearly verbatim, rule 9-8 which uses the term "10 seconds." Explanation that the rules allow for an official to have a visible count while watching play doesn't suffice. Warning to coach that I've heard enough and we're playing on, along with the stop sign does not deter him.

Walk away from him, ideally towards the opposite site of the court.

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Banter continues and Coach runs through the second stop sign

Now he has hung himself and everyone knows it. T.

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

this time stating he doesn't have to be quiet as long as he's not being disrespectful. I'm thinking, geez, is this the hill he's going to die on? Also thinking I'm not going to listen to this guy for 3 more qtrs. Whack.

Anybody have this happen? Anybody handle it differently?

You most definitely had to whack him. Whether it's after stop sign 1 or 2 is the question. Waiting until SS2 is fine with me, given the description of your play.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Was all of this "explanation" during a time out or other stoppage? If so, I think I'd have brought the stop sign out earlier.

In either case, 2nd stop sign? Stop means stop. "Banter continues" = T.

Why a second stop sign? One is enough to let everyone in the gym know that he has been warned. Stop obviously doesn't mean stop if you give him a second warning. just my thought

-Josh

[Mark Padgett]

Think of it this way. If you are out driving and you run a stop sign in front of a cop, is he going to wait until you run a second one before giving you a ticket?

[packersowner]

Better question - who makes a big deal out of that in the 1st quarter? Always surprises me when coaches are more worried about the technicalities of the call than ensuring their teams can advance the ball up the court.

[Adam]

Steps:
1. Quick explanation.
2.Head down to lead while new T puts ball in play.
3. Now you're 50 feet away, so everyone hears you say, "Coach, the play is over, move on."
4. If he brings it up after that, we're shooting.

This call looks bad, so I might give him a little more rope before advising him to drop it, and I will take an extra second for the explanation. My explanation would include the fact that two different timers started by two different people are bound to start at two different times.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

You most definitely had to whack him. Whether it's after stop sign 1 or 2 is the question. Waiting until SS2 is fine with me, given the description of your play.

The problem with this is that you have invalidated your first stop sign for the rest of the game and possibly the rest of the games you work with this guy. These coaches know what a stop sign is. It means "That's enough, no more"... if they keep going, they are either testing you or they want a T.

[habram]

My Question is how many seconds did go off the clock

10 second count shouldn't be in 7 seconds nor in 15 seconds

The clock time and the official's time should be at least within a few seconds

This happens very often especially when games are close

If a team is losing by many points ,10 secs may be 11 or 12 and that's ok

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by habram

My Question is how many seconds did go off the clock

10 second count shouldn't be in 7 seconds nor in 15 seconds

The clock time and the official's time should be at least within a few seconds

This happens very often especially when games are close

If a team is losing by many points ,10 secs may be 11 or 12 and that's ok

Yes it does, for whatever reason. And our counts aren't by the clock, always. (I'm impressed with the way the NBA makes this work.) NCAA has a good case play just for this type of situation, too, that backs the officials.

[mtn335]

I'm lucky enough to be in a state w/ a shot clock, so (a) it's easy to sync my count up early in the game with the timer - easier than with the game clock, IMO, since the shot clocks are meant to be visible to players during action - and (b) it's also easy if I'm getting near 10 to take a quick glance back to the timer and make sure it reads 25/20 (boys/girls) before I call it. Makes selling this call much easier.

The other edge of the sword is, of course, if the player attains frontcourt status with 24/19 on the timer, and the coach is a smart one, you're going to hear it :-)

[Pantherdreams]

Sounds like you made he right call. The only area of concern at all for me is "banter continues". I'm not sure what this means, is he talking to you during the play, do you not have a chance to move away? Is the banter hostile, debating/carlifying rules points or attacking? The way I envision it in my head seems like the right call, but I'm imagining banter isn't really banter more demanding or being purposefully arugmentative.

[SNIPERBBB]

If you really want to fun with the coach..."since 10 seconds didn't come off I'll have to correct the time on the clock. Thanks"

[rekent]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

If you really want to fun with the coach..."since 10 seconds didn't come off I'll have to correct the time on the clock. Thanks"

That is great!