"Hey Ref, that's five seconds!"

[grunewar]

I was wondering why I haven't seen more closely guarded counts in the NCAA tournament, so, I looked it up on-line and found the below explanation. I "assume" it to be correct. If so, this is a PRIME example of why what is watched by fans, helps perpetuate our problems with rules knowledge....

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A five-second closely guarded violation may be called against an offensive player with the ball when that player is guarded closely for five seconds or more and does not pass, shoot, or dribble within that time.

Under NCAA men's rules, to be considered "closely guarded", a defender must be guarding a player who is located in the frontcourt and within six (6) feet of the player. The count applies to a player who is only holding the ball. Prior to the 2015-16 season, the rule included those dribbling the ball as well. This allows for multiple closely guarded counts to occur.

NCAA women's rules require the defender to be within three (3) feet and can occur anywhere on the playing court, but only applies when the offensive player is holding the ball. A count ends whenever the player with the ball gets his head and shoulders past the defender, the defender is no longer within the required distance, the same defender does not continuously closely guard the player in control of the ball, or another opponent is between the defender and the ball.

High school rules mimic men's college basketball's closely guarded rule. A defender must be guarding the player in control of the ball, in the frontcourt, and must be within six feet of the player. A player may be holding or dribbling the ball. If defensive teammates switch, and both are within six feet of the player in control of the ball, the same count is continued.

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Certainly helped me understand the differences better.

Plus the shot clock kinda makes closely guarded irrelevant.

[bob jenkins]

NCAAW is now six feet and FC only. It's been that way for several years.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAAW is now six feet and FC only. It's been that way for several years.

Yep, the men and women have the same rule.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAAW is now six feet and FC only. It's been that way for several years.

Are you saying the interweb is wrong?

Shocked I tell ya! Shocked I am!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Plus the shot clock kinda makes closely guarded irrelevant.

I disagree with this. IMHO, which the rules committee doesn't share, the closely guarded -- when dribbling -- rule prevents one player from dribbling the ball for 25 seconds and trying every move in his arsenal in order to get a shot. I think that the closely guarded rule promotes team play, rather than allowing a possession to devolve into an extended one-on-one contest.

I much prefer the NFHS rule to the NCAA/NBA rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I disagree with this. IMHO, which the rules committee doesn't share, the closely guarded -- when dribbling -- rule prevents one player from dribbling the ball for 25 seconds and trying every move in his arsenal in order to get a shot. I think that the closely guarded rule promotes team play, rather than allowing a possession to devolve into an extended one-on-one contest.

I much prefer the NFHS rule to the NCAA/NBA rule.

Actually, that was the logic of the committee. They felt there was no need for the closely guarded during a dribble because of shortening the shot clock. And I agree with them as a player dribbling around does not create better offense. During a high school game that would just be keep away and not players able to stop them. Not so much the case at the college level.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I disagree with this. IMHO, which the rules committee doesn't share, the closely guarded -- when dribbling -- rule prevents one player from dribbling the ball for 25 seconds and trying every move in his arsenal in order to get a shot. I think that the closely guarded rule promotes team play, rather than allowing a possession to devolve into an extended one-on-one contest.

I much prefer the NFHS rule to the NCAA/NBA rule.

LOVE that we don't have a "closely guarded while dribbling" rule in college. Shot clock means they will be shooting ball in under 30 seconds. And team cohesion is so much greater at the college level than at the HS level. Players dribble the ball for a reason at the college level.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

LOVE that we don't have a "closely guarded while dribbling" rule in college. Shot clock means they will be shooting ball in under 30 seconds. And team cohesion is so much greater at the college level than at the HS level. Players dribble the ball for a reason at the college level.

Solution: Adopt a 30 second shot clock nationally at the high school level. This will finish the closely guarded on a dribble nonsense, once and for all.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Solution: Adopt a 30 second shot clock nationally at the high school level. This will finish the closely guarded on a dribble nonsense, once and for all.

Make enough trips to high schools that can't run a scoreboard or keep a book properly and you'll think twice about that thought.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Solution: Adopt a 30 second shot clock nationally at the high school level. This will finish the closely guarded on a dribble nonsense, once and for all.

We get your opinion on this. But, your conclusion in this thread doesn't follow at all.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

If so, this is a PRIME example of why what is watched by fans, helps perpetuate our problems with rules knowledge ...

Which is exactly why it's on my list of The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules (NFHS):

The closely guarded rule is in effect in frontcourt only, when a defender is within six feet of the ball handler. Up to three separate five second counts may occur on the same ball handler: holding, dribbling, and holding. The count continues even if defenders switch. The five second count ends when a dribbler gets his, or her, head, and shoulders, ahead of the defender.

[JRutledge]

You did not look up recent rules I see, because almost none of those rules are the current rules. Men's rules changed last year to get rid of closely guarded requirement when dribbling because the shot clock was reduced. The NCAA Men's Committee felt it was unnecessary for the shot clock. Women's changed their requirement for closely guarded a very long time ago in both the dribble and the distance.

I do not expect fans to know the rules if our officials do not know the rules. Either way, it is common that there are differences amongst levels. The same way it is different in football for example and there are many more rules differences in football, but it does not stop people from thinking they know that an NFL rule is not an NF rule.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if our officials do not know the rules.

Certainly true for officials who work under more than one rule set.

Not true for those of us that only work under one rule set. As a 100% high school official, and not a big college, or NBA, basketball fan, I go out of my way to avoid rule set comparisons. It's enough of a task for me to remember differences in NFHS rules from thirty-seven years ago and today, so I'm not even trying to understand NCAA, and NBA rules, especially different rules for different genders.

In my specific situation, I would prefer to be a master of one trade, and not a jack of all trades.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Certainly true for officials who work under more than one rule set.

Not true for those of us that only work under one rule set. As a 100% high school official, and not a big college, or NBA, basketball fan, I go out of my way to avoid rule set comparisons. It's enough of a task for me to remember differences in NFHS rules from thirty-seven years ago and today, so I'm not even trying to understand NCAA, and NBA rules, especially different rules for different genders.

In my specific situation, I would prefer to be a master of one trade, and not a jack of all trades.

Then officials need to be smart enough to know that the NCAA or NBA might have a different rules set. We seem to do that very well in football and baseball. Half the time in those sports you would have to tell a coach and even sometimes a fan that they were thinking of a pro rule that in no way applied to the NF rule. There are many more NFL rules differences from the NF, but it does not stop an official to remind a coach, "There is no 5-yard contact rule" or "It is not an automatic first down for a personal foul." And it is not that hard to know these things as a football official. I do not understand why this is hard for basketball officials when the rules are almost identical in many ways?

Peace