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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 09:17am
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I agree with Bob Jenkins. It will be interesting to see if this makes our video next year. To me the defender is running straight down her path and never comes into the offensive player. In fact the overhead angle has her, IMHO, moving to her right a step. They come together at a spot on the floor. I have the offensive player moving into a vertical defensive player who has maintained her path. I was ok with the no call live and ok with it here on film. I am not sure the defender did anything wrong except be bigger than the offensive player which caused the offensive player to bounce off of her when they came together. Again just my opinion. If it does make the video, it will be interesting to see what the powers that be think about it. Both the C from a good angle slightly behind and the L have a good look at the action of both players.
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Last edited by walt; Mon Apr 02, 2018 at 09:21am.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by walt View Post
I agree with Bob Jenkins. It will be interesting to see if this makes our video next year. To me the defender is running straight down her path and never comes into the offensive player. In fact the overhead angle has her, IMHO, moving to her right a step. They come together at a spot on the floor. I have the offensive player moving into a vertical defensive player who has maintained her path.
All good, except that isn't within the rights of a defender. Did she have LGP? No. Not even close. As such, she has no right to be moving at the time of contact. Even if she did have LGP, the movement, even if it was in an established path was such that the offensive player had head and shoulders past the defender. She also move towards the shooter in making contact.

It may be that the powers that be are OK with not making the call, but it will not be because it wasn't a foul (by rule).
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 10:57am
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To me this is two players who get to the same spot at the same time. It is not a block charge play. To me they come together legally at the same spot from two different positions and angles. If both get to that spot legally, there can be a collision with no foul. I do not have the defender moving into the offensive player. I have her moving perpendicularly towards the endline. The offensive player is headed to the basket. I understand you have the defender doing something wrong where I have two players in equal positions getting to the same spot at the same time from different positions and that is why I am ok with the no call. Both C and T were looking right at it and trail, while farther away, had an open look as well. Like I said, if it is part of the video, or if it makes the rounds at camps this summer, it will be interesting to see how the big dogs and coordinators see it.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 11:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walt View Post
To me this is two players who get to the same spot at the same time. It is not a block charge play. To me they come together legally at the same spot from two different positions and angles. If both get to that spot legally, there can be a collision with no foul. I do not have the defender moving into the offensive player. I have her moving perpendicularly towards the endline. The offensive player is headed to the basket. I understand you have the defender doing something wrong where I have two players in equal positions getting to the same spot at the same time from different positions and that is why I am ok with the no call. Both C and T were looking right at it and trail, while farther away, had an open look as well. Like I said, if it is part of the video, or if it makes the rounds at camps this summer, it will be interesting to see how the big dogs and coordinators see it.
A player having a right to a spot on the floor is more for stationary players. A player doesn’t have to have LGP to occupy a spot, but when defenders are moving then LGP is used to determine wether contact is legal or not.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 11:44am
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There are some interesting contortions happening in here in order to justify a non-call.

Even acknowledging that calls are different in the final seconds, I can't see this as anything but a foul.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 12:12pm
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If we are talking about the last play before the foul at 3 seconds, the MSU player dribbled right to a defender that got to the ball before any contact. That is not a foul anytime I have been officiating and if I saw what I saw on video in my game, I would hope I would pass on that play as the officials did yesterday.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 12:20pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
If we are talking about the last play before the foul at 3 seconds, the MSU player dribbled right to a defender that got to the ball before any contact. That is not a foul anytime I have been officiating and if I saw what I saw on video in my game, I would hope I would pass on that play as the officials did yesterday.
I believe you’re referring to the play in the championship game. This is the thread for the semifinal and we are discussing the no call before overtime.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 12:29pm
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I believe you’re referring to the play in the championship game. This is the thread for the semifinal and we are discussing the no call before overtime.
You are right.

But if we are talking about the last play, I saw nothing obvious at all about that situation where I would call a foul. Again, that situation happens all the time in a Men's game and there is no foul called. Again the defender is 6'8 if I am not mistaken. She is going to defend most players differently.

BTW, I had this player when she was a high school player in a Nike Tournament in Chicago. She has gotten a lot tougher and I remember having a conversation with her after the game I had her about playing big. She was very soft in high school in my opinion at least when I saw her in my game. She plays much bigger than she did when I saw her too, but she still makes some silly foul mistakes IMO.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 01:02pm
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I mean, illegal contact sent a shooter to the floor and significantly impacted her ability to make the shot. I could sell a no-call if there was also a play on the ball, but it's all body contact on an offensive player who had beaten her defender.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by walt View Post
To me this is two players who get to the same spot at the same time. It is not a block charge play. To me they come together legally at the same spot from two different positions and angles. If both get to that spot legally, there can be a collision with no foul. I do not have the defender moving into the offensive player. I have her moving perpendicularly towards the endline. The offensive player is headed to the basket. I understand you have the defender doing something wrong where I have two players in equal positions getting to the same spot at the same time from different positions and that is why I am ok with the no call. Both C and T were looking right at it and trail, while farther away, had an open look as well. Like I said, if it is part of the video, or if it makes the rounds at camps this summer, it will be interesting to see how the big dogs and coordinators see it.
So, you'll let a defender collide with a shooter because they came from "equal" positions? If so, and I apologize if this sounds too critical, your whole understanding of the rule is just fundamentally flawed. They are not in equal positions....one has the ball and that changes everything, guarding rules apply and there is nothing in guarding about equal positions. The equal positions concept has to do with players getting to a ball.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 01:40pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
So, you'll let a defender collide with a shooter because they came from "equal" positions? If so, and I apologize if this sounds too critical, your whole understanding of the rule is just fundamentally flawed. They are not in equal positions....one has the ball and that changes everything, guarding rules apply and there is nothing in guarding about equal positions. The equal positions concept has to do with players getting to a ball.
Camron lets jump the fence. Why did these officials pass on an obvious shooting foul?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:10pm
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Camron lets jump the fence. Why did these officials pass on an obvious shooting foul?
Going to OT.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:13pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
All good, except that isn't within the rights of a defender. Did she have LGP? No. Not even close. As such, she has no right to be moving at the time of contact. Even if she did have LGP, the movement, even if it was in an established path was such that the offensive player had head and shoulders past the defender. She also move towards the shooter in making contact.

It may be that the powers that be are OK with not making the call, but it will not be because it wasn't a foul (by rule).
So if a defensive player (B1) is running up the court the ball-handler can just run up beside B1, create illegal contact, then get the benefit of a foul?
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Apr 02, 2018 at 02:46pm.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:31pm
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And if we want to talk about fouls that were missed that sent the game into OT, Louisville #23 clearly shoves a MSU player in the back before missing the put back. That was more of a foul than the contact on the shooter.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:31pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So if a defensive player (B1) is running up the court the ball-handler can just run up beside A1, create illegal contact, then get the benefit of a foul?
Not if I am on the play.

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