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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:44pm
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I am calling that a foul every time. Offensively player has the angle. Defense who is not legal moves into her during the shot.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 02:49pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So if a defensive player (B1) is running up the court the ball-handler can just run up beside B1, create illegal contact, then get the benefit of a foul?
Not what happened here. But somewhat, yes. The ball handler pretty much has the right to go where he/she likes. It is the defender's job to legally get in the path to stop them. If they can't get into the path, then they don't have a legal position. I may not grant a foul call of they are side-by-side and the dribbler cuts sideways to create contact but, in this play, the defender ran into the back of the dribbler/shooter as the dribble cut across the front of the defender's path. The shooter beat her to the spot and was fouled.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 03:19pm
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They are side by side through this entire play. Slow it down frame by frame. At the :24 second mark of the clip, the offensive player is actually behind the left leg of the defender and they are side to side. Both officials (C & L) have an angle on the play with a shooter on the ground and have no call. I happen to agree with them. The offense initiated the contact on a defender who beat her to a spot. I am not disagreeing time and score may have impacted the decision but like Rut and Raymond have said, I just don't see a foul here.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 04:40pm
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Originally Posted by walt View Post
They are side by side through this entire play. Slow it down frame by frame. At the :24 second mark of the clip, the offensive player is actually behind the left leg of the defender and they are side to side. Both officials (C & L) have an angle on the play with a shooter on the ground and have no call. I happen to agree with them. The offense initiated the contact on a defender who beat her to a spot. I am not disagreeing time and score may have impacted the decision but like Rut and Raymond have said, I just don't see a foul here.
Sorry, your description of the play just does not match what is in the video. The defender wasn't even close to beating anyone to the spot. She was running full speed and got passed then ran into the shooter. Even if they got to the spot at the same time or even if the defender got there first, she simply did not do so legally. Who initiates contact is not a factor in the rules. The defender has to obtain their spot legally. The only thing that kept that from being a foul was the time and score.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 04:49pm
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The contact occurred on the back side of her right shoulder. Side by side isn’t legal. Legal needs to be facing the torso and both feet on the floor. B tries to jump to block the shot and she is not jumping from A and landing on A. Player A’s contact did not cause B be to land on spot B.
I don’t see OIC on this play. I see offense getting the angle to attack the rim and B cutting the angle off late.
I didn’t see the game possibly they were matching a call that happened late in the game that was similar.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 07:37pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
And if we want to talk about fouls that were missed that sent the game into OT, Louisville #23 clearly shoves a MSU player in the back before missing the put back. That was more of a foul than the contact on the shooter.
I wondered about the ramifications of that had the put-back gone in the hoop. That blatant shove got her the chance for the put-back. Kantner right there as C and passed on both plays.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 08:32pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I wondered about the ramifications of that had the put-back gone in the hoop. That blatant shove got her the chance for the put-back. Kantner right there as C and passed on both plays.
Dee wasn't working this game.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 02, 2018, 09:25pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Dee wasn't working this game.
She only works the finals.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 09:16am
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Tech - Good call. My only issue is that the player gets a tech for expressing frustration by slapping the floor and immediately gets T'd while the coach can run down the sideline screaming profanity in response to both calls and gets a pass. Not saying its a male-female thing, but clearly a player-coach distinction in terms of rope that I don't believe is a good look.

Last play - Normally I would lean foul here, even given time and score. HOWEVER, based on what had been no called involving both those players and others over the game and specifically the last 5 minutes, calling a foul there would have been inconsistent with the standard created by the crew over the course of the game involving contact at the rim and involving bigs. So I'm ok with the no call in that context.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 09:34am
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Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
...

Last play - Normally I would lean foul here, even given time and score. HOWEVER, based on what had been no called involving both those players and others over the game and specifically the last 5 minutes, calling a foul there would have been inconsistent with the standard created by the crew over the course of the game involving contact at the rim and involving bigs. So I'm ok with the no call in that context.
Great point that has not been taken into consideration by anybody else's responses. I didn't see the game so I know I would have no idea how that no-call fit in with how the game was called overall.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 11:22am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Great point that has not been taken into consideration by anybody else's responses. I didn't see the game so I know I would have no idea how that no-call fit in with how the game was called overall.
Same for me...didn't see the game, just saw this play. If they'd been letting contact like that go all game, it would be hard to call that. But, I bet they called a lot less contact as fouls many times too.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 01:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Tech - Good call. My only issue is that the player gets a tech for expressing frustration by slapping the floor and immediately gets T'd while the coach can run down the sideline screaming profanity in response to both calls and gets a pass. Not saying its a male-female thing, but clearly a player-coach distinction in terms of rope that I don't believe is a good look.

Last play - Normally I would lean foul here, even given time and score. HOWEVER, based on what had been no called involving both those players and others over the game and specifically the last 5 minutes, calling a foul there would have been inconsistent with the standard created by the crew over the course of the game involving contact at the rim and involving bigs. So I'm ok with the no call in that context.
Agree 100% on your comment about the Tech. Wish there was more accountability on the coaches for this behavior.

Looking only at that clip - 100% foul. Not knowing if this wasn't called throughout the game could change my mind.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 02:06pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Dee wasn't working this game.
You are correct. It was Mattingly. Got confused on who owned that pony tail.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 02:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Tech - Good call. My only issue is that the player gets a tech for expressing frustration by slapping the floor and immediately gets T'd while the coach can run down the sideline screaming profanity in response to both calls and gets a pass. Not saying its a male-female thing, but clearly a player-coach distinction in terms of rope that I don't believe is a good look.
Coaches are adults and running their team. Players are not on any level with me as an official and certainly not with that kind of display. And maybe there is some other element to this, but a woman made the original call and another woman called the T.

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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2018, 07:47pm
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I do not put of with much nonsense from either coaches or players, but I definitely put up with much less nonsense from players than I will from a coach.
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