Vid request: Wash vs OSU - 2 whistles for phantom foul?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Raymond

1) I believe that is a block on its own merits, but it is most definitely a block with the RA

2) Illegal contact by defender's right knee followed by ballhandler going down = a foul. If he stays upright and maintains his footing, then no-call.

Originally Posted by Welpe

Great observation. I admit I missed that my first few viewings but it's definitely there. I think that's enough for a block.

I get your point, and am not denying the knee is there, but it has NOTHING to do with why that defender goes to the ground. His knee didn't push the leg out giving the illusion of a slip, that player just flat out slipped.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I get your point, and am not denying the knee is there, but it has NOTHING to do with why that defender goes to the ground. His knee didn't push the leg out giving the illusion of a slip, that player just flat out slipped.

There is no way you can say that definitively. The offensive player loses his footing immediately after the contact, no matter how slight. There is a strong case to be made the contact affected his balance.

Looks like a really tough call in real time. But on replay I think there is not only a knee but a slight body bump as well, which is a point of emphasis- at least in NFHS- this year.

Does this kind of contact, and more, happen all the time in the post at that level? Of course. But again, there is support for illegal contact by a defender resulting in a ball handler losing his balance.

That along with two officials immediately having the same thing. I'm deferring to them on this.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I get your point, and am not denying the knee is there, but it has NOTHING to do with why that defender goes to the ground. His knee didn't push the leg out giving the illusion of a slip, that player just flat out slipped.

Not true. It was everything about why he went down. The dribbler ran into the knee and upset his balance.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I get your point, and am not denying the knee is there, but it has NOTHING to do with why that defender goes to the ground. His knee didn't push the leg out giving the illusion of a slip, that player just flat out slipped.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

There is no way you can say that definitively. The offensive player loses his footing immediately after the contact, no matter how slight. There is a strong case to be made the contact affected his balance.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true. It was everything about why he went down. The dribbler ran into the knee and upset his balance.

Ok, I can concede that I can't say that the contact has nothing to do with the slip, but for the same reason, you can't say it has EVERYTHING to do with it. I think that player slips with a legal defender as well, the bump contributed less than 10% of why he eventually fell, which is a number I made up to help my argument.

I guess I don't mean to criticize the officials when they probably got it right, my point is that I think if this was not called, we wouldn't be talking about how it should've been called, even if that play was still clipped and presented to us here.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

...

I guess I don't mean to criticize the officials when they probably got it right, my point is that I think if this was not called, we wouldn't be talking about how it should've been called, even if that play was still clipped and presented to us here.

If that foul is not called the coach for UW is sending a clip of that play into the PAC 12 supervisor before he leaves the facility. It's a 50-50 type play where the officials have to make a decision. Score/time/foul count/previous plays all have to be taken into consideration in a moment's time.

[Blindolbat]

#1 looks like a block to me with or without RA

#2 - I'm not good enough to make that call

Originally Posted by Blindolbat

#2 - I'm not good enough to make that call

Yes you are! When you see these plays just make sure to watch the defender closely and look for the point of contact cuz that is often where the foul is. In plays like this the defenders love to stick their knees in there to displace the opponent, so that would be a further clue.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Yes you are! When you see these plays just make sure to watch the defender closely and look for the point of contact cuz that is often where the foul is. In plays like this the defenders love to stick their knees in there to displace the opponent, so that would be a further clue.

And if we consistently call this foul when the ball-handler is disrupted it will discourage the tactic in the future.

These guys are coached to do this subtle tactics in hopes that officials will not see the contact or will think the contact is marginal.