Vid request: Wash vs OSU - 2 whistles for phantom foul?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Only if he is still moving forward at the time of contact. Moving forward along doesn't netgate LGP, it can still be maintained even when moving towards the opponent if that forward motion has ceased before contact.

Yes -- if he pulled the foot forward, then it was still moving at the time of contact -- it may or may not have been removed from the RA

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes -- if he pulled the foot forward, then it was still moving at the time of contact -- it may or may not have been removed from the RA

You can see from one of the angles that his upper body is moving forward and sideways at the time of contact.

Originally Posted by Blindolbat

#2 - I'm not good enough to make that call

Yes you are! When you see these plays just make sure to watch the defender closely and look for the point of contact cuz that is often where the foul is. In plays like this the defenders love to stick their knees in there to displace the opponent, so that would be a further clue.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Yes you are! When you see these plays just make sure to watch the defender closely and look for the point of contact cuz that is often where the foul is. In plays like this the defenders love to stick their knees in there to displace the opponent, so that would be a further clue.

And if we consistently call this foul when the ball-handler is disrupted it will discourage the tactic in the future.

These guys are coached to do this subtle tactics in hopes that officials will not see the contact or will think the contact is marginal.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes -- if he pulled the foot forward, then it was still moving at the time of contact -- it may or may not have been removed from the RA

While that might be the case, I don't believe it is necessarily the case. I can easily see that a player could stop moving forward (based on the torso) but not put the foot back down.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While that might be the case, I don't believe it is necessarily the case. I can easily see that a player could stop moving forward (based on the torso) but not put the foot back down.

Hmmm -- this might be a rule differenca. I think the NCAAW rule is that if initial LGP is inside the RA, it's a block (unless the player re-establishes LGP outside the RA, and, of course, assuming the rest of the conditions are met). I know if the player establishes LGP outside the RA, the player can back into the RA and be legal.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hmmm -- this might be a rule differenca. I think the NCAAW rule is that if initial LGP is inside the RA, it's a block (unless the player re-establishes LGP outside the RA, and, of course, assuming the rest of the conditions are met). I know if the player establishes LGP outside the RA, the player can back into the RA and be legal.

I know this is semantics, but initial LGP cannot be established within the RA, because by definition that isn't LGP, correct?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hmmm -- this might be a rule differenca. I think the NCAAW rule is that if initial LGP is inside the RA, it's a block (unless the player re-establishes LGP outside the RA, and, of course, assuming the rest of the conditions are met). I know if the player establishes LGP outside the RA, the player can back into the RA and be legal.

Good point. In this case, you could argue that the player started from a position outside of the RA (perhaps obtaining LGP), stepped side ways into it, then stepped forward. It is never called that way, but it could be argued.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I know this is semantics, but initial LGP cannot be established within the RA, because by definition that isn't LGP, correct?

Incorrect. You can still have LGP in the RA -- it's just that sometimes the illegal contact is ruled a charge and sometimes it's ruled a block, depending on what lead to the illegal contact.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Incorrect. You can still have LGP in the RA -- it's just that sometimes the illegal contact is ruled a charge and sometimes it's ruled a block, depending on what lead to the illegal contact.

That is a general statement about all plays, right? In the play in question from the OP, it is a secondary defender, so he cannot establish LGP within the RA. Or am I misinterpreting the wording? Is this a thing where LGP can be obtained anywhere technically, but if it is established within the RA, its more or less useless (again as a secondary defender) because it will be ruled a block regardless?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by frezer11

That is a general statement about all plays, right? In the play in question from the OP, it is a secondary defender, so he cannot establish LGP within the RA. Or am I misinterpreting the wording? Is this a thing where LGP can be obtained anywhere technically, but if it is established within the RA, its more or less useless (again as a secondary defender) because it will be ruled a block regardless?

This.

And, in NCAAW, it's not always illegal for the secondary defender -- only if the play starts outside the LDB, and there hasn't been a secondary move in the LDB, or the offense doesn't lead with an arm or foot, etc.

[#olderthanilook]

I hope the Fed never brings the RA into the high school game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Or, did he pull the foul out and forward before contact, perhaps, giving him a position outside of the RA? I couldn't tell for sure, but it seems possible.

He attempted to pull his foot forward, but it was still in the air at the time of contact. And his left shoulder was moving forward at the time of contact.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

That is a general statement about all plays, right? In the play in question from the OP, it is a secondary defender, so he cannot establish LGP within the RA. Or am I misinterpreting the wording? Is this a thing where LGP can be obtained anywhere technically, but if it is established within the RA, its more or less useless (again as a secondary defender) because it will be ruled a block regardless?

Pretty much useless, unless the offensive player leads with a knee/elbow/arm and creates illegal contact.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He attempted to pull his foot forward, but it was still in the air at the time of contact. And his left shoulder was moving forward at the time of contact.

I agree with the block for the body still moving forward. But does the foot actually have to be on the floor to have LGP? What if the player gets out of the RA entirely (perhaps by several inches), stops moving forward and jumps straight up without touching the 2nd foot down outside the RA?