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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 10:09pm
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Unhappy Coach Conversation middle of game 13 minutes long

Tonight my partner dealt with a varsity coach who has on multiple occasions frustrated officials. This school and his team dominate just about every team they play and in unsportsmanlike fashion. In the JV game this varsity was the AC and he decides he is going to make a comment about the the overall foul count of the game. "You've called one foul on blue all night long," we chose to ignore this very first statement out of him all night long. Then we have a foul on blue and as we rotate he begins to clap his hands very condescendingly and very loudly in a quiet gym. My partner then tells him that we do not need that in this game. He then gives a very quiet official warning. The coach does not like the statement from him and starts to argue with him by saying things like "what am I doing, I did not do anything I am just clapping my hands." As they are having this conversation he decides he is going to pull out his phone and begin recording him and everything he is saying to him. My partner then tells him he cannot record and he hands his phone to somebody not on the bench. He then leaves the JV game to go take care of his varsity team.

Varsity game begins.He is now the HC on this game. We get to 4 minutes into the 1st quarter when we have double whistle and a block call on his team. He and the AC both get up out of their seats and start making comments like wow, really, that's ridiculous. Having had them before I did not even bother trying to talk to them about this behavior since they would not listen and gave the bench an official warning. He then wants to discuss why it was a blocking call on his team. I told him no we are done tonight and you have lost that privilege. He then asks my partner how many timeouts he can call in a row my partner tells him 2. They discuss the call during the first timeout then he calls a second timeout and this is where the conversation begins. He starts making statements to my partner like why am I always targeted by you guys, we are always treated unfairly and not given the calls we should get, I just want you guys to to call the game by the book exactly how it is written in the book and administer the Technical fouls and everything else by the book, we are mistreated every single game, is it my face,I am going to beat this team by 70 points, is it the way I dress? So they discuss this for 13 minutes all the while the opposing team is getting frustrated and comes over and says can we play the game now? My partner ignores her and continues his conversation with the coach. I had gone over multiple times to break up the conversation saying we have a game going on and we need to continue this game, I was ignored as well. Meanwhile I am talking to my supervisor about this conversation and he says tonight he is just a bystander and cannot do anything about it. Then the AD comes over and finally stops the conversation after my partner explained to him several times this games is this game and has nothing to do with other games and you can talk to the officials at the appropriate time. He then gets so fed up with it he sits on the bench and covers his ears with his hands. I then pointed out to the AD who had asked us earlier about how he can help diffuse these situations and what he needs to tell the coach that this is the exact kind of "childish behavior we deal with night and night out with him and why we have a hard time with him." This finally ends and we move on and not another peep was heard from the HC the rest of the night.


Last edited by Fuelrider; Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 10:12pm.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 10:31pm
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My only thoughts are 1) That the conversation went on about 12 minutes and 30 seconds too long, an 2) I am at a loss why the coach was still in the gym after all of this.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 10:34pm
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13 minutes? Knowing his history and actions earlier in the night, 13 seconds would have been too long of a conversation. Based on your description, I'd like to think I would have warned, T, and second T if it the book, as he requested. It only continues to be a problem if we allow it to continue to be a problem.
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Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 11:10pm
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I might of asked the AD to have both the coach and my partner be removed.

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Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 11:23pm
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One word... Why?

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 12:23am
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
One word... Why?

"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 12:41am
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My thoughts are there is SO MUCH wrong with the whole evening that I don't know where to begin.

A few things come to mind though.

1) There is no way you should have entertained that level of conversation from an AC during a JV game, or any game for that matter. It doesn't matter if he is the V HC. If they are an AC, you shouldn't be letting them chirp from the bench. Period.

2) How in the world did you and/or your partner not issue a single T in any of this. When he kept on after the official warning in the 2nd game that should have been easy. And a 2nd T should have followed in short order based on what was described.

3) I'm not letting a coach use his timeout to argue with me or my partner. Let alone consecutive ones. Delaying the game for a 13 minute conversation is unconscionable.

4) I was skeptical of the official warning before the season but 99% of what I've seen and observed has been officials using it successfully in getting coaches to curtail their poor behavior. This scenario is the opposite. Sounds like you and your partner used it as a crutch to not call a T and let this coach get away with mass murder.

5) Why to all of it. Just why.......

Last edited by VaTerp; Thu Jan 25, 2018 at 12:43am.
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 12:41am
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It took me 13 minutes just to read the OP.
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 12:58am
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VaTerp, It was not originally supposed to be a crutch. It did not matter what I said to my partner who was the R on the game. I tried to get him to stop talking to him and he refused to listen to me. If it were me I would not have had that conversation, I told him we were done tonight but with my partner was making his own choices, and I do not feel like I can control his actions. The warning was supposed to be what it is a warning. Then a T like the usual steps. My partner refused to give him a T or do anything else till he was satisfied with what he either was going to tell the coach, or till the coach was done. I personally felt like I had no control over what happened. What could I personally do differently in that situation? T up the coach since my partner won't? Then take care of the 2 shot foul we had before this situation then the T, and if they still are not done issue the second T? I just had no idea what the hell was going on. I have never in my career seen something so insane to the point of delaying a game like this. What do you do when you have a partner who refuses to continue the game because he is to busy talking to the coach? I cannot just put the ball in play and go without him can I?

Last edited by Fuelrider; Thu Jan 25, 2018 at 01:01am.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 01:57am
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I know I am guilty of long posts. And I personally do not have a problem with long posts, but if you have to make a long post, break it down into smaller paragraphs.

JV Game: He may be the HC of the Varsity Team but during the JV game he is an AC. And as such he needs to be reminded, in a professional manner that this is the JV game and he must conduct himself accordingly. Also the JC HC should be reminded in a professional manner that he needs to keep his Bench under control.

When it was obvious that the VAR HC did not want to conduct himself professionally and the JV HC was not going to do his job in controlling Bench then: WHACK the VAR HC. That will get the attention of both Coaches.

VAR Game: I would have WHACKED the VAR HC at the 4:00 mark of the 1st QT. You have to nip that nonsense in the bud. I will talk with a HC during a TO if he wants to ask a question, but as soon as he wants to start to complain about the officiating I instantly shut him down.

I have one other observation and that is your partner was incorrect with regard to the number of TOs that a Team may request in a row. A team can request, and the request must be granted, as many TOs in a row as it wants, with exception of consecutive TOs after the 4th QT or any OT period.

It is past my bed time so I am going to end this post.

MTD, Sr.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 02:23am
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Uhh, why in the hell would you allow this to happened. 2 T’s, and he leave the gym, or the game is over!!
Would have never allowed this to happen. Your partner needs to grow a set of balls. What a putz.
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 02:54am
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Halftime / Postgame

That is insane.
I really want to know what you said to your partner afterwards. What did he say to you? What did your assigner say afterwards?
I cannot imagine what I would do in this scenario.
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 05:01am
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The OP should've whacked this coach when he clapped sarcastically.

Being the R on a game here is meaningless. The R tosses the ball and has some other duties. It does not mean he can dictate how the rest of the crew operates.

"I'm putting it in play, wrap this up."

Then put it in play.
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 08:42am
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-- shoulda kept talking

I suspect if your partner would have been more patient.. talked to him a couple more minutes he could have gotten to the root of the coach's personal problems that cause him to act this way, then hugged it out, and the game could have continued peacefully. Seems like he gave up too early. I find the 14th minute of a contentious conversation often is the time when they see the light
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Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 08:56am
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Sometimes you just need to quit being the nice guy.
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
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