Starting count - at 0 or 1?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

I have to respectfully disagree with the answer to the first question and it looks as if you are saying yes by your sentence "The arm swing ends at one second." Clearly time elapses from 0 to one second at which time there would be no visual indication of a count.

There's the start of the swing and the motion of the arm. The same thing that happens between 1 and 2 (etc.). No one is complaining "hey -- you stopped your count" during that interval

[Pantherdreams]

Look.

You are getting five arm movements. You can also count 1001 or 1 Mississippi I don’t care. By the time my arm gets out and back you’ve gotten 1 of those, you get 5 full ones. And as per Roman generals instructions a distinct pause after last chop before whistle blows.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bucky

I have to respectfully disagree with the answer to the first question and it looks as if you are saying yes by your sentence "The arm swing ends at one second." Clearly time elapses from 0 to one second at which time there would be no visual indication of a count.

My arms start down by my side. When I deem ball at disposal, I start counting "one thousand...". When I start count in my head my arm comes up to my chest. It goes out as I say "one." It comes in to my body as I say"one thousand"....and back out when I say "2." And so on. The visual indicator at the start is my arm going up to my chest.

[diehardmason]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Look.



You are getting five arm movements. You can also count 1001 or 1 Mississippi I don’t care. By the time my arm gets out and back you’ve gotten 1 of those, you get 5 full ones. And as per Roman generals instructions a distinct pause after last chop before whistle blows.

Totally agree. Some simple things we over complicate. Count 1-5. If you make it to five blow your whistle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bucky]

Sure, everyone's input is great and makes sense. I am not trying to complicate the count. I am trying to answer one single question: Is there a count without a visual signal? Unless you visually signal an arm movement at 0, the answer is yes.

Another thread had a debate as to when the ball was at the disposal of an inbounder, the visual 5 second count, etc. It is clear that the ball can be at the disposal of a player and a count started but yet, not a visual signal.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by bucky

Sure, everyone's input is great and makes sense. I am not trying to complicate the count. I am trying to answer one single question: Is there a count without a visual signal? Unless you visually signal an arm movement at 0, the answer is yes.

Another thread had a debate as to when the ball was at the disposal of an inbounder, the visual 5 second count, etc. It is clear that the ball can be at the disposal of a player and a count started but yet, not a visual signal.

You are way, way, way overthinking this. The whole point of the arm movement is it takes a second--five arm movements = five seconds. So the arm movement should be starting at the time the official is starting the count. Is there going to be some fraction of a second between the time the official decide its time to start the count and the time a spectator can recognize the visual movement of the arm? Sure. But who cares.

(If that doesn't do it, think of a the difference between a clock that counts down from 8:00 in whole seconds and one that shows the hundredths. Typically the clock that only shows seconds won't move for a second; but the clock that shows hundredths instantly goes to 7:59.99. Those scrolling hundredths are the same as your moving arm.)

[jeremy341a]

When my arm is going out I count "one thousand" when it comes back and touches my chest I count "one."

[UNIgiantslayers]

I always hear from coaches that I count fast. I just put a stop watch on my count. I'm actually about 6.5 seconds. 5 seconds goes by REALLY fast.