The effect of a technical foul on a coach

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've had an AD tell me that a certain official won't be allowed in his school again.

I haven't had a scheduling cycle since, but this is a great idea. However, I'm not fond of putting an official into a meat grinder when I can avoid it....so I'm a bit conflicted.

Well just put him/her in a couple of games and let it ride.

At least assignors only control their conference. I could have a coach not want me during a non-conference, tournament or playoff game and that coach has no control over such a thing.

I had an ejection this summer from a coach that does not like me and he told me, "I will make sure you never work any of my games." Well, early in the season I worked one of his best rivals in a game and have him like two more times. And we have not gotten to the playoffs yet. Usually getting playoff games shut them up around here because they are so paranoid that they act like angels when they realize how little power they have over the process.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

To me it's the equivalent.

Agreed. I can’t imagine giving a flagrant T for either comment. Matter of fact, I can’t imagine any words/statements that would get a flagrant T from me at the varsity level (maybe slurs if said loud enough, but thankfully that’s never happened to me).

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At least assignors only control their conference. I could have a coach not want me during a non-conference, tournament or playoff game and that coach has no control over such a thing.

In South Carolina, if you’re scratched by a school, you don’t work any games for it: region, non-region, home, away, postseason...doesn’t matter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

In South Carolina, if you’re scratched by a school, you don’t work any games for it: region, non-region, home, away, postseason...doesn’t matter.

Well, that does not work here because assigning for each type of game might be assigned by a completely different person. Again, the only one they have the power to do that with is maybe their conference assignor. And we have similar conference assignors to D1, where one person that assigns has no association with another conference. They will not have an assignor from another conference give a damn about their so-called request for a scratch. And the IHSA does not take scratches and they assign all playoff games. Heck, it has been known that an official had a problem with a school/coach only to have them in the early rounds of the playoffs (all ejections are filed to the IHSA and even other incidents in some cases). They do not give coaches that kind of power in general. The IHSA wants us to give more Ts for things that would cause problems with coaches.

Peace

[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Agreed. I can’t imagine giving a flagrant T for either comment. Matter of fact, I can’t imagine any words/statements that would get a flagrant T from me at the varsity level (maybe slurs if said loud enough, but thankfully that’s never happened to me).


In South Carolina, if you’re scratched by a school, you don’t work any games for it: region, non-region, home, away, postseason...doesn’t matter.

I would hope that the school would be required to provide a pretty strong, legitimate reason to justify a scratch.

Otherwise it seems like it would be pretty easy to abuse against officials who take care of business as JRut and others have said.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Agreed. I can’t imagine giving a flagrant T for either comment. Matter of fact, I can’t imagine any words/statements that would get a flagrant T from me at the varsity level (maybe slurs if said loud enough, but thankfully that’s never happened to me).
...

I would laugh it off and/or make some sort of comment in response at the HS level, b/c I definitely don't have to worry about my schedule.

At the college level I would hit them with a Class-A.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Matter of fact, I can’t imagine any words/statements that would get a flagrant T from me at the varsity level (maybe slurs if said loud enough, but thankfully that’s never happened to me).

Really???

How about the coach that yells "You are a f@cking cheater!!" No flagrant T for that?

Or how about "You mother-f@cker"...no flagrant T for that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Really???

How about the coach that yells "You are a f@cking cheater!!" No flagrant T for that?

Or how about "You mother-f@cker"...no flagrant T for that?

Just calling you a cheater alone? I do not know that would get a Flagrant by itself either. I was called something else and did give a Flagrant T earlier, but it was not being called a cheater. Heck they are basically calling you that when they talk about foul counts. Need stronger language for that alone. I would rather give two Ts than one.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

I would hope that the school would be required to provide a pretty strong, legitimate reason to justify a scratch.

Otherwise it seems like it would be pretty easy to abuse against officials who take care of business as JRut and others have said.

Nope. But schools only get to scratch a certain number of officials statewide (not sure what the number is). All varsity games (save certain holiday tournaments) are assigned on the same Arbiter account, so it's pretty simple to just go in and add/remove scratches.

I think it's stupid, but SC is not the only state that gives schools this type of control over who doesn't get to work their games. Heck, I think in Texas both coaches have to approve the crews assigned to each game (or something like that).

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Really???

How about the coach that yells "You are a f@cking cheater!!" No flagrant T for that?

Or how about "You mother-f@cker"...no flagrant T for that?

I'd rather give two Ts than one to eject/DQ someone. It makes it more obvious that the individual hung himself. Chances are, if the coach is calling you that, he's going to get his second T shortly after his first because he's not going to calm down. And if my partners decide not to do their job, I will happily issue T #2 even if I also gave #1. I'm not afraid of doing this like some officials are.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Nope. But schools only get to scratch a certain number of officials statewide (not sure what the number is). All varsity games (save certain holiday tournaments) are assigned on the same Arbiter account, so it's pretty simple to just go in and add/remove scratches.

I think it's stupid, but SC is not the only state that gives schools this type of control over who doesn't get to work their games. Heck, I think in Texas both coaches have to approve the crews assigned to each game (or something like that).

I do not think anyone is saying that other states do not do this, but that does not mean it is the best system either. I just think that gives coaches too much power if you have a say over even a game in another part of the state.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think anyone is saying that other states do not do this, but that does not mean it is the best system either. I just think that gives coaches too much power if you have a say over even a game in another part of the state.

Peace

Believe me, I know it’s not the best system, which is why I prefaced my comment by saying “I think it’s stupid.”

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think anyone is saying that other states do not do this, but that does not mean it is the best system either. I just think that gives coaches too much power if you have a say over even a game in another part of the state.

Peace

In southern california if a team wants you removed from a game you are assigned they still have to pay your fee + you were at the top of the list for any assignment that day.

I was scratched only once and it was easy money in my opinion. I did my best to get scratched more often but I think budget cuts made it almost impossible for schools to throw that kind of money around.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just calling you a cheater alone? I do not know that would get a Flagrant by itself either. I was called something else and did give a Flagrant T earlier, but it was not being called a cheater. Heck they are basically calling you that when they talk about foul counts. Need stronger language for that alone. I would rather give two Ts than one.

Peace

Those are both personal and profane and would get him ejected in any baseball game I've worked over the last 25+ years at any level.

Why does he get more leeway in hoops? That coach would be gone.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Those are both personal and profane and would get him ejected in any baseball game I've worked over the last 25+ years at any level.

Why does he get more leeway in hoops? That coach would be gone.

Well in baseball, guys get ejected for looking at umpires wrong. When I worked baseball, guys would love to brag about how many guys they got rid of during games as if it was a badge of honor. In football, a coach can have a meltdown and nothing ever happens to them as it comes to being penalized (e.g Mark Richt). When is the last time you saw a football coach get ejected from anything but a high school game? Basketball seems to be somewhere in the middle of those two sports. Now if you are working a baseball game, that might be OK because of the culture of that sport, but it is said often that umpires are either confrontational or too sensitive.

In basketball, if something is not obvious to everyone, people (meaning fellow officials or coaches and media) are often scrutinizing us for what coaches get ejected for. How many times has a coach said something inappropriate, but no one heard a single thing but you as an official and it turns into he said, he said situation? Well, I cannot speak for you, but for me, that has happened often. So I am not ejecting a coach just because they used foul language. As a matter of fact, if I ejected every coach that used foul language, at least in these parts I would have ejections every other game and probably would not get hired anymore. I tend to use other skills to get accomplished what I want or to get the behavior to stop, especially when the behavior is not very well identified by an observer. I would rather eject someone for something everyone sees or hears so that there is no question they did that act.
But I have been saying this for a long time, if they roll the dice, they just might crap out. So you are totally in the right if you choose to do such a thing, but I would rather make it so the other questions cannot be easily raised about me. Because at the end of the day, you eject a coach it becomes about you to those that claim they did nothing wrong.

Peace