The effect of a technical foul on a coach

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

Let's stop pretending it's anothet foul. No other foul is like a technical foul.


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Well, yes and no. Of course it’s not, but the mentality that it is can be useful in remembering to take a deep breath, confer with your partners, and assess the penalty correctly.


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[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Well, yes and no. Of course it’s not, but the mentality that it is can be useful in remembering to take a deep breath, confer with your partners, and assess the penalty correctly.


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Somewhat off topic, but I can’t stand unnecessary/excessive discussions with partners. Most technical fouls shouldn’t require a discussion, especially in HS where the penalty is the same for all Ts.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Somewhat off topic, but I can’t stand unnecessary/excessive discussions with partners. Most technical fouls shouldn’t require a discussion, especially in HS where the penalty is the same for all Ts.

The main reason you need to discuss with a partner after a T is to make sure you do everything you are supposed to. I agree the rule application is the same when it comes to something like where you put the ball in play, but you have to still shoot everything else and make sure the right people shoot the FTs. Many times officials are not sure who is shooting or what just happened if they did not call the T. Even an administrative T might have to be explained to the table because they might give the appropriate people the technical foul like in my game the other day. Yes the application is simple and penalty, but people forget parts of the penalty often. Even in college, you got to make sure who you are giving the ball to and that has been messed up or almost messed up. That is why we have to stop telling people that Ts are just like other fouls, they are clearly not.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

... people use “game management” as a cop-out for “not taking care of business.” I also think that a lot of officials that boast about never giving Ts aren’t as great of “game managers” as they purport–they just let coaches get away with more than they should.

Isn't "taking care of business" part of "game managment"? They are not mutually exclusive.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Tracking and uniformly recording them makes little sense.

For all technical fouls listed on a spread sheet leading to suspensions? Sure.

We're including the human element here. Officials only report unsporting (not an illegal uniform) technical fouls, including a brief description of the situation. Our assignment commissioner looks for patterns of unsporting behavior. If circumstances merit it, he will report such patterns (no predetermined limit, but three reports for one school may merit some attention) of unsporting behavior to the athletic director and/or principal (the state and/or conference/league is not involved). There are no predetermined consequences, suspensions, etc. Some athletic directors and/or principals may just toss such a report aside. But many athletic directors and/or principals may sit down with said coach and have a heart to heart discussion with the coach. And then there are a few athletic directors and/or principals out there who are just waiting for such "ammunition" to non-renew the coaches one year renewable contract.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Somewhat off topic, but I can’t stand unnecessary/excessive discussions with partners. Most technical fouls shouldn’t require a discussion, especially in HS where the penalty is the same for all Ts.

We need to give the person calling the technical foul a moment to take a deep breath and get everyone in the right spot post-technical. I don't want to whack someone and then be in his lap 10 seconds later. Others might, but I don't see the need. And some officials might need to take a moment to get the shooter to the right end of the floor, etc.

As far as reporting technicals, don't ever let the assigner be blindsided by a phone call or an email from the coach or AD complaining about a technical foul. The official should be the first one to contact the assigner and/or file a report if that's what's required. Do I think it's right that technical fouls need to be reported? No. But here they are required at the state level any time a head coach loses the box, so I want a copy of that as the assigner.

I got a report from a crew earlier this season that was just perfect. It included the time and the why of the administrative warning and then the time and description of what led to the technical foul. I then used this in my follow-up with the school.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Isn't "taking care of business" part of "game managment"? They are not mutually exclusive.

No they’re not mutually exclusive; my point was that those kinds of officials think technical fouls are an indication of bad game management.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

No they’re not mutually exclusive; my point was that those kinds of officials think technical fouls are an indication of bad game management.

We have an old guy who used to be good decades ago who still brags that he hasn't given out a technical in YEARS.

As the person running those meetings, I quickly replied that I expect the officials I hire (and he's not one of them) to penalize poor sportsmanship and moved on.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

We have an old guy who used to be good decades ago who still brags that he hasn't given out a technical in YEARS.

As the person running those meetings, I quickly replied that I expect the officials I hire (and he's not one of them) to penalize poor sportsmanship and moved on.

Where I live we get a certain number of partner and school scratches, and I’d be willing to bet he’d be on my list.

He’s probably one of those guys that goes over and laughs with the coach that his partner just whacked.

Which reminds me of another pet peeve of mine.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Where I live we get a certain number of partner and school scratches, and I’d be willing to bet he’d be on my list.



He’s probably one of those guys that goes over and laughs with the coach that his partner just whacked.



Which reminds me of another pet peeve of mine.

I don't maintain a school blacklist. I won't. I consider it an unethical practice.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Where I live we get a certain number of ... school scratches ...

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't maintain a school blacklist. I won't. I consider it an unethical practice.

I'm sure that you would still allow school "scratches" for "conflicts of interest". I would never want to officiate at my daughter's school while was playing basketball. That would certainly be a lose lose situation.

Knowing that I was a basketball official, I was once asked by the athletic director (a friend of mine) at my daughter's school to umpire a junior varsity softball (I'm not a softball umpire) game when the umpires didn't show up one afternoon. It was me, or cancel the game. I explained to both coaches that I was not a softball umpire and that I was a parent of a junior varsity player. They both still wanted me to umpire. No equipment, so I called balls and strikes from behind the pitcher. Even with everyone on board, I was still uncomfortable the entire game, and it was only a junior varsity game. I received a check in the mail which I sent back asking that the money be deposited into the athletic awards account.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't maintain a school blacklist. I won't. I consider it an unethical practice.


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We shouldn’t have it here. But schools are allowed to maintain scratch lists of officials (also dumb), so I guess it’s only fair that officials get the same privilege. I have a couple officials scratched but I don’t scratch any schools. The way I see it, if a coach or AD has some sort of beef with me, they can use one of their scratches if they don’t want to see me again. There’s one school in the area that a bunch of officials scratch because they don’t like way the boys coach acts. In other words, they’re too scared to whack him.

I whacked a girls coach who was up 20 points late in the game and wanted to start coaching me and got all butthurt when I asked him to deal with his assistant. He said “you’re going on my list” and I looked at him and said “I do not care” and walked away.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm sure that you would still allow school "scratches" for "conflicts of interest". I would never want to officiate at my daughter's school while was playing. That would certainly be a lose lose situation.

That's not a school scratch. That's an assigning decision.

I work games in my daughter's district. I will stop while she's in HS. If they didn't want me, they wouldn't hire me.


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[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

We shouldn’t have it here. But schools are allowed to maintain scratch lists of officials (also dumb), so I guess it’s only fair that officials get the same privilege.



I whacked a girls coach who was up 20 points late in the game and wanted to start coaching me and got all butthurt when I asked him to deal with his assistant. He said “you’re going on my list” and I looked at him and said “I do not care” and walked away.

You misunderstood - or I wasn't clear. I don't let a school blacklist officials. If an official tells me he/she doesn't want to work a school, I'd honor that.

I don't want the schools to think for a minute they control who they get. I assign for a league and one of the reasons they hire assigners is to eliminate the appearance of home schools dictating who works their games.


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[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

We shouldn’t have it here. But schools are allowed to maintain scratch lists of officials (also dumb), so I guess it’s only fair that officials get the same privilege. I have a couple officials scratched but I don’t scratch any schools. The way I see it, if a coach or AD has some sort of beef with me, they can use one of their scratches if they don’t want to see me again. There’s one school in the area that a bunch of officials scratch because they don’t like way the boys coach acts. In other words, they’re too scared to whack him.

I whacked a girls coach who was up 20 points late in the game and wanted to start coaching me and got all butthurt when I asked him to deal with his assistant. He said “you’re going on my list” and I looked at him and said “I do not care” and walked away.

By the way, that comment is a flagrant technical. If a coach threatens an official working there, he may as well get a head start on calling the assigner.


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