Two Play Situations, Same Concept?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Correct -- but in the OP, with the action taking place in the BC and the ball bouncing several times before it reached the FC, the chances of it being deemed a try are pretty small.

4-41-4: The try ends ... when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

"Superman" is a "she?" Did I miss something on the news?

Dr. Who is now a woman, and maybe, someday, Secret Agent 007 will be a woman.

James Bond: The women who could play a female 007 when Daniel Craig steps down | The Independent

Welcome to the twenty-first century, baby. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Jqb12]

In #1. Is this legal because the ball hit the ground first, before he picked it up?
I thought a player cannot pass the ball to himself. He can recover his own "air ball" and do what he wants after that because team control ended with the shot, but this obviously is not a shot. Please clarify.
Thank you

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

In #1. Is this legal because the ball hit the ground first, before he picked it up?
I thought a player cannot pass the ball to himself. He can recover his own "air ball" and do what he wants after that because team control ended with the shot, but this obviously is not a shot. Please clarify.
Thank you

Yes.
It is not a pass. It is a dribble. Check the definition of a dribble. This action qualifies.

[Jqb12]

OK, yes I see. I was thinking of it in terms of a pass. Now, if it didn't hit the floor, and he caught it, then it's considered a pass.........that would be another issue - correct?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Check the definition of a dribble.

4-15: ART. 2 During a dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is
permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hand(s).
ART. 3 The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball
to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

... if it didn't hit the floor, and he caught it, then it's considered a pass ... that would be another issue - correct?

Correct.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.44.3 SITUATION D: A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

OK, yes I see. I was thinking of it in terms of a pass. Now, if it didn't hit the floor, and he caught it, then it's considered a pass.........that would be another issue - correct?

No, it isn't a pass. A pass, by definition, is to another player.

It is an illegal dribble....the ball was throw "to" the floor but he caught it before it got there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is an illegal dribble....

Illegal dribble, or travel?

The citation in the casebook play is 9-4: TRAVEL, KICK, FIST, BALL ENTERS BASKET FROM BELOW, not 9-5: ILLEGAL DRIBBLE.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.44.3 SITUATION D: A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

Also, the casebook play number (4.44.3 SITUATION D) refers to 4-44 which deals with TRAVELING. DRIBBLING is in 4-15.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Illegal dribble, or travel?

The citation in the casebook play is 9-4: TRAVEL, KICK, FIST, BALL ENTERS BASKET FROM BELOW, not 9-5: ILLEGAL DRIBBLE.



Also, the casebook play number (4.44.3 SITUATION D) refers to 4-44 which deals with TRAVELING. DRIBBLING is in 4-15.

I could make an argument for either. The case has said both over the years.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Illegal dribble, or travel?

The citation in the casebook play is 9-4: TRAVEL, KICK, FIST, BALL ENTERS BASKET FROM BELOW, not 9-5: ILLEGAL DRIBBLE.



Also, the casebook play number (4.44.3 SITUATION D) refers to 4-44 which deals with TRAVELING. DRIBBLING is in 4-15.

Well, we need clarification don't we? What if A1 merely touched the ball and did not catch it? If it is traveling then we have another exception to the requirement of "holding" the ball. If it is an illegal dribble then the citation referenced needs to be edited. If it is something else then my head will explode, which isn't that rare.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Well, we need clarification don't we? If it is something else then my head will explode, which isn't that rare.

I'm not sure why it's a travel but I know that it's not an illegal dribble.

9-5 ILLEGAL DRIBBLE
A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended.

Where's the second dribble. In fact, where's the first dribble.

The ball handler in question must be moving his pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball, even if the only holding the ball is at the beginning of the play.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Well, we need clarification don't we? What if A1 merely touched the ball and did not catch it? If it is traveling then we have another exception to the requirement of "holding" the ball. If it is an illegal dribble then the citation referenced needs to be edited. If it is something else then my head will explode, which isn't that rare.

That's already covered by 4-15-2. A player is not permitted to touch the ball a second time during a dribble prior to it striking the floor.
The second touch is an illegal dribble violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

4-15-2.

Nice citation Nevadaref.

4-15-2. During a dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is
permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hand(s).

What if the ball isn't batted into the air, but rather is thrown into the air after being held with both feet on the floor (before it's dribbled even once)?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.44.3 SITUATION D: A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

Certainly still illegal. But batted (implies no possession) isn't the same as thrown (implies possession).

The casebook play number (4.44.3) and the casebook play citation (9-4) both lead me to believe that this is a travel violation.

Nevadaref's rule number (4-15-2) deals with dribbling.

So, what type of violation is it?

It's a dravel, or maybe a a tribble.

Stupid NFHS rules editors.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice citation Nevadaref.

4-15-2. During a dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is
permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hand(s).

What if the ball isn't batted into the air, but rather is thrown into the air after being held with both feet on the floor (before it's dribbled even once)?

Certainly still illegal. But batted (implies no possession) isn't the same as thrown (implies possession).

The key with the above case us "during a dribble", implying the dribbler was already in progress. If the is thrown into the air, then the dribble wasn't already in progress.