No try, ball dead on foul

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

If a ball goes in the basket, and I'm officiating, then the intent was to score.

A1 passes the ball to A2, who isn't looking for the ball. The ball hits A2 on the shoulder, and bounces into the air, eventually passing through the basket. No complicating factors like end of period, foul, etc.

The ball went in the basket. Was there an intent to score?

4-41 SHOOTING, TRY, TAP
ART. 1 The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try
or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne
shooter.
ART. 2 A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three
points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal
when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or
attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand
as a foul could prevent release of the ball.
ART. 3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually
precedes the release of the ball.
ART. 4 The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the
throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball
becomes dead.
ART. 5 A tap for goal is the contacting of the ball with any part of a player’s
hand(s) in an attempt to direct the ball into his/her basket.
ART. 6 A tap shall be considered the same as a try for field goal, except as
in 5-2-5.
ART. 7 The tap starts when the player’s hand(s) touches the ball.
ART. 8 The tap ends in exactly the same manner as a try.

Now, just for fun, who wants to talk about complicating factors while the ball is in flight toward the basket?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 passes the ball to A2, blah blah blah

Please don't waste our time with this stuff. Team A shoots and misses, A1 goes to rebound but the ball bounces off his shoulder and go in the basket.

Go ahead, cancel the goal. I'll love watching the youtube videos of you go viral.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Please don't waste our time with this stuff. Team A shoots and misses, A1 goes to rebound but the ball bounces off his shoulder and go in the basket.

Go ahead, cancel the goal. I'll love watching the youtube videos of you go viral.

Billy's example is obviously an extreme one. But intent is obviously a question which sometimes must be answered. A1 leaps in the air and is clobbered before he can release the ball. You must decide whether to award 2 shots or not. So why is the OP any different? You must decide whether to count the basket or wave it off.

[just another ref]

Back to the original question, which is: What, if anything, causes a ball in flight to be dead in the NBA?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Back to the original question, which is: What, if anything, causes a ball in flight to be dead in the NBA?

Jeff Van Gundy?

[nolanjj68]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Back to the original question, which is: What, if anything, causes a ball in flight to be dead in the NBA?

This is from the 2013-2014 NBA rule book.

Section IV—Dead Ball
a. The ball becomes dead and/or remains dead when the following occurs:
(1) Official blows his/her whistle
(2) Free throw which will not remain in play (free throw which will be followed by another free throw, technical, flagrant, etc.)
(3) Following a successful field goal or free throw that will remain in play, until player possession out-of-bounds. Contact which is NOT considered unsportsmanlike shall be ignored. (Rule 12A—Section V—i)
(4) Time expires for the end of any period

EXCEPTION: If a field goal attempt is in flight, the ball becomes dead when the goal is made, missed or touched by an offensive player.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Team A shoots and misses, A1 goes to rebound but the ball bounces off his shoulder and go in the basket.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now, just for fun, who wants to talk about complicating factors while the ball is in flight toward the basket?

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 leaps in the air and is clobbered before he can release the ball.

Let the fun begin.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let the fun begin.

A1 passes the ball to A2, who isn't looking for the ball. The ball hits A2 on the shoulder, and bounces into the air ...

1) While the ball is in flight, before it goes into the basket, B3 fouls A3. The ball subsequently goes into the basket. Team A is not in the bonus. You make the call.

2) While the ball is in flight, before it goes into the basket, A3 fouls B3. The ball subsequently goes into the basket. Team B is not in the bonus. You make the call.

3) The ball is on the ring and B3 bats the ball off the ring. The ball does not go in the basket. You make the call.

4) While the ball is in flight, B3 touches the ball while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and it has the possibility of entering the basket. The ball does not go in the basket. You make the call.

5) As the ball is bouncing off of A1's shoulder, B2 pushes A1, the ball subsequently goes into the basket. Team A is not in the bonus. You make the call.

6) As the ball is bouncing off of A1's shoulder, B3 pushes A3, the ball subsequently goes into the basket. Team A is not in the bonus. You make the call.

7) As the ball is bouncing off of A1's shoulder, A3 pushes B3, the ball subsequently goes into the basket. Team B is not in the bonus. You make the call.

8) While the ball is in flight, before it goes into the basket, the horn sounds to end the period. The ball subsequently goes into the basket. You make the call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Please stop.

Please back off the statement below:

Originally Posted by deecee

If a ball goes in the basket, and I'm officiating, then the intent was to score.

Please explain what statement of mine lead one to believe that I wouldn't count the basket (below):

Originally Posted by deecee

Team A shoots and misses, A1 goes to rebound but the ball bounces off his shoulder and go in the basket. Go ahead, cancel the goal. I'll love watching the youtube videos of you go viral.

Usually, the ball enters the basket as the result of a try, but sometimes it doesn't. When that rare event happens, it's important to understand the ramifications of the rule.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Billy's example is obviously an extreme one. But intent is obviously a question which sometimes must be answered.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

text text text

Sorry if I misunderstood you. It's tough sometimes when most of your posts are pages long and certain phrases are highlighted, along with your penchant for the absurd when it comes to what ifs. I'm sure in person you are very nice, but I would hope you would start summarizing your posts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 passes the ball to A2, who isn't looking for the ball. The ball hits A2 on the shoulder, and bounces into the air, eventually passing through the basket. No complicating factors like end of period, foul, etc.

Originally Posted by deecee

Team A shoots and misses, A1 goes to rebound but the ball bounces off his shoulder and go in the basket. Go ahead, cancel the goal.

NFHS rules. No complicating factors like end of period, foul, etc. Why (in either situation above) would I cancel this goal? Why would any official even think about canceling this goal? Why would deecee think that I would cancel this goal and become a YouTube viral sensation? Why would deecee think that any official worth his salt on this Forum would even consider canceling this goal?