Legal Guarding Position + Wackiness

[bucky]

Another thread involving LGP and recent NFHS docs, got me thinking (uh oh!)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.23.3 SITUATION B: A1 is dribbling near the sideline when B1 obtains legal
guarding position. B1 stays in the path of A1 but in doing so has (a) one foot
touching the sideline or (b) one foot in the air over the out-of-bounds area when
A1 contacts B1 in the torso. RULING: In (a), B1 is called for a blocking foul
because a player may not be out of bounds and obtain or maintain legal guarding
position. In (b), A1 is called for a player-control foul because B2 had obtained
and maintained legal guarding position. (4-23-2; 4-23-3a)

4-23-2: To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
4-23-3: After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:
a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne,
provided he/she has inbound status.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
4. Guarding. ... Once a defensive player obtains legal guarding position by facing an opponent with both feet of the floor inbounds, he/she may move to maintain that position in any direction except toward the offensive player being guarded when contact occurs. The defense is not required to keep both feet on the playing court and may jump vertically or laterally to maintain the legal position. If contact occurs prior to the offensive player getting head and shoulders passed the defender the responsibility is on the offensive player.

Play 1: A1 scores a layup, his momentum carries him OOB, and his shoe comes off. While still OOB, A1 grabs his shoe, takes a knee, and begins putting his shoe on. B1 gathers the ball after it is scored and sees A1 kneeling. B1 simply, while OOB, runs into the kneeling A1. Is it an automatic foul on A1 because A1 was not in a LGP as he was not inbounds?

Play 2: A1 and B2 have been defending each other the entire game. A1 scores a layup and his momentum carries him OOB. While OOB, he turns, steps IB, and begins to run back on defense. B1 secures the ball after the layup, goes OOB, and makes a throw-in to B2, who is IB. B2 quickly dribbles up the court and runs into A1 (back is to B2) from behind. Is it an automatic foul on A1 because A1 was not in a LGP as he was never facing his opponent?


Silly, I know, but are these examples of loopholes in the wording used for LGP? Or, is there an obvious misinterpretation?

[justacoach]

Bucky, you are severely over-thinking this LGP thing.

Without regard to LGP, each player is entitled to their spot, on the floor, provided they got that spot thru legal means.

They can be facing any direction, jumping or waving to their mom in the stands, and cannot be illegally displaced from that spot.

LGP just denotes the player has additional prerogatives to take actions, after having legally gained their spot. You may move sideways, obliquely or backwards and, only by moving forward the offensive player do you subject yourself to a foul.

Burn this concept in your mind and you will always come up with the correct answer no matter how obtuse the situation.

Applies to NFHS terps, ymmv as to NCAA and NBA

[Nevadaref]

There was an example of your Play 2 in the NFHS Simplified. & Illustrated book several years ago. I've cited it before on this forum. The ruling is a charging foul. The reason is that the defender is entitled to his spot on the floor.

The reason is the same for your Play 1.

I do question the language of the POE in one aspect. It says that a defender may jump laterally to maintain LGP. I don't believe that is true.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I do question the language of the POE in one aspect. It says that a defender may jump laterally to maintain LGP. I don't believe that is true.

If you can move laterally and maintain LGP, why can't you jump laterally? As long as you're not going forward.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

If you can move laterally and maintain LGP, why can't you jump laterally? As long as you're not going forward.

Agree. It only depends on whether the defender maintained a position IN the path the entire time. If so, they can move sideways. Nothing specifies or limits how they are permitted to move sideways.

[SNIPERBBB]

There is much more fun discussion on play 1...

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by bucky

B1 simply, while OOB, runs into the kneeling A1...

B2 quickly dribbles up the court and runs into A1 (back is to B2) from behind...

LGP necessitates "guarding." "Standing there" or "being there" or "kneeling there", in fact (in NFHS, anyway), "lying there" isn't "guarding," is it?