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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:22am
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Legal Guarding Position

B1 is in the Lane and has established LGP. A1 drives to the hoop and collides with B1.

A) If B1 opens his shoulder up by turning away right before contact, is this considered maintaining LGP?

B) If B1 turns his shoulder forward toward A1 right before contact,is this considered maintaining LGP?

Thanks!
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:56am
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A defender can "brace" for contact and still take a PC foul but I think I need more info on the turning of the shoulder away or toward to decide.....not facing the offense? Is that your description? Or leaning back or forward. Just can't picture this in my head


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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:08pm
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Situation A is a charge

Situation B is a block...the defender cannot move forward.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
A defender can "brace" for contact and still take a PC foul but I think I need more info on the turning of the shoulder away or toward to decide.....not facing the offense? Is that your description? Or leaning back or forward. Just can't picture this in my head


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B1 establishes LGP but right before crash turns his shoulder away from A1 whereby he is no longer facing A1 head on bit only partially facing. Same thing except the turn of the shoulder is toward A1 and again not facing A1 head on but only partial...Hope that helps
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
A defender can "brace" for contact and still take a PC foul but I think I need more info on the turning of the shoulder away or toward to decide.....not facing the offense? Is that your description? Or leaning back or forward. Just can't picture this in my head


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Facing the offense is required to gain LGP. It is not required to maintain it.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
B1 establishes LGP but right before crash turns his shoulder away from A1 whereby he is no longer facing A1 head on bit only partially facing. Same thing except the turn of the shoulder is toward A1 and again not facing A1 head on but only partial...Hope that helps
I've got PC either way. I don't consider shoulder movement here to be moving forward enough, unless I'm picturing it wrong.
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Last edited by Adam; Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 02:26pm. Reason: saturday brain
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:47pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Facing the offense is required to gain LGP. It is not required to maintain it.

I realize that which is why I was asking for more info. In the first sitch I'm thinking PC. In the 2nd, sounds like a block.


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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
B1 is in the Lane and has established LGP. A1 drives to the hoop and collides with B1.

A) If B1 opens his shoulder up by turning away right before contact, is this considered maintaining LGP?

B) If B1 turns his shoulder forward toward A1 right before contact,is this considered maintaining LGP?
Given your description both should be PC fouls. The phrase "right before contact" means - to me, at least - the shoulder turns were completed before there was contact with the BH/D. As long as the BH/D didn't go airborne, the defender can be moving any direction other than forward at the moment of contact.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
B1 is in the Lane and has established LGP. A1 drives to the hoop and collides with B1.

A) If B1 opens his shoulder up by turning away right before contact, is this considered maintaining LGP?

B) If B1 turns his shoulder forward toward A1 right before contact,is this considered maintaining LGP?

Thanks!
A) Perfectly legal. Movement AWAY from the shooter is always legal.

B) Might be legal in some cases but I'd have to see it. Movement towards is generally not legal. But, if the movement is primarily a twist for protection and not putting a shoulder closer to enhance contact, I have a PC still, otherwise, I'd go with a block.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I've got a block either way. I don't consider shoulder movement here to be moving forward enough, unless I'm picturing it wrong.
Adam, did you mean to say PC? The way I am picturing it, the turning of the shoulder(s) in either direction shouldn't matter if it is apparent they are still within the vertical space of the defender. Now if a forward step or a significant leaning were also involved, that could change things.

Last edited by billyu2; Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 02:08pm.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:26pm
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Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Adam, did you mean to say PC? The way I am picturing it, the turning of the shoulder(s) in either direction shouldn't matter if it is apparent they are still within the vertical space of the defender. Now if a forward step or a significant leaning were also involved, that could change things.
Doh, I did mean PC. I'll fix it.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
B1 is in the Lane and has established LGP. A1 drives to the hoop and collides with B1.

A) If B1 opens his shoulder up by turning away right before contact, is this considered maintaining LGP?

B) If B1 turns his shoulder forward toward A1 right before contact,is this considered maintaining LGP?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
Situation A is a charge

Situation B is a block...the defender cannot move forward.


Charge in both (A) and (B).

As long as the Defender stays within his Cylinder of Verticality he has a LGP. Furthermore, it does not matter whether the Defender rotates his body in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction one shoulder will be closer to the Offensive Player and the other shoulder with be farther away from the Offensive Player and this is legal as long as the Defender stays within his Cylinder of Verticality.

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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:23pm
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Charge in both (A) and (B).

As long as the Defender stays within his Cylinder of Verticality he has a LGP. Furthermore, it does not matter whether the Defender rotates his body in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction one shoulder will be closer to the Offensive Player and the other shoulder with be farther away from the Offensive Player and this is legal as long as the Defender stays within his Cylinder of Verticality.

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Well worded, I like it.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:45pm
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Firstly in honour of Star Wars "It's a trap." Anytime one shoulder is turning back you've got one turning foward. Whatever the call is should be the same for both.

2nd players are allowed to twist,turn, move backwards to protect themselves. If they have lgp and any movements within their cylinder are simply to protect themselves I,be got no problem. PC both times.

Now if the turn and dip their lead shoulder not to protect but to deliver a blow and lean forward beyond their space or a similar situation it would be a different story.
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Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:16pm
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It is quite possible, through a combination of leaning the torso forward or back, while at the same time twisting, to move one shoulder in a horizontal direction and not move the other.
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