HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Rich

with a waiver.

I am not asking for it. The kid would have played and none of this would have happened. No one would have mentioned it just like no one mentioned illegal headbands in the state championship game shown on the other thread.

The fact is that there is a religious exception for covering a players head. I am not going to ask someone to prove their religion. That is just me.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by CJP

I am not asking for it. The kid would have played and none of this would have happened. No one would have mentioned it just like no one mentioned illegal headbands in the state championship game shown on the other thread.

The fact is that there is a religious exception for covering a players head. I am not going to ask someone to prove their religion. That is just me.

You're not asking to prove their religion, and the player is not being prohibited from playing because of her religion. You're asking that she has a waiver for you to put a rule aside and she can't play because she is wearing an illegal article. She can take it off and play, or get the waiver. Stop using freedom of religion as the basis for your argument. Also using, "in the state finals I saw illegal headbands" is also a bad argument here. How do you know that officials weren't reprimanded?

An official that follows the rules should never get reprimanded or made a scape goat.

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[CJP]

Originally Posted by deecee

You're not asking to prove their religion, and the player is not being prohibited from playing because of her religion. You're asking that she has a waiver for you to put a rule aside and she can't play because she is wearing an illegal article. She can take it off and play, or get the waiver. Stop using freedom of religion as the basis for your argument. Also using, "in the state finals I saw illegal headbands" is also a bad argument here. How do you know that officials weren't reprimanded?

An official that follows the rules should never get reprimanded or made a scape goat.

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I am not using "freedom of religion" for anything. Common sense here is that there is a religious exception. She is wearing headgear that indicates her religion. I am not going to ask her to prove it. No where in the rule book am I required to ask to see a waiver. It says we shall not permit any team member to wear equipment or apparel, in my judgement, that is not appropriate. In my judgement she plays. Easy.

The point of me bringing up the headbands in the other game is that as long as no one make an issue out of it then it is not an issue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CJP

I am not using "freedom of religion" for anything. Common sense here is that there is a religious exception. She is wearing headgear that indicates her religion. I am not going to ask her to prove it. No where in the rule book am I required to ask to see a waiver. It says we shall not permit any team member to wear equipment or apparel, in my judgement, that is not appropriate. In my judgement she plays. Easy.

Funny you mention the rule book not requiring you to ask for a waiver when it is the rule book that says she can't wear it without one. :/

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Funny you mention the rule book not requiring you to ask for a waiver when it is the rule book that says she can't wear it without one. :/

Actually, the rule book does not mention a waiver at all. Nice try though.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by CJP

Actually, the rule book does not mention a waiver at all. Nice try though.

3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc

[CJP]

Originally Posted by BigCat

3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc

You are correct.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc

A waiver might not be how this is addressed. It is allowed in Illinois I know that for sure. And if we have an issue, we file a Special Report to address the issue. We have had this come up several times over the recent years.

Peace

[bucky]

Originally Posted by CJP

Actually, the rule book does not mention a waiver at all. Nice try though.

Not sure why you say this. The book mentions documentation and a waiver is certainly a form of documentation. Documentation can come in many, many different forms. The rule book is certainly not going to list every single piece of form so they use a broad term, "documentation". So, because the specific word "waiver" is not listed, would you accept an email/voice mail/hand-written note/text/etc from the state association? I am guessing that you would but those forms of documentation are not mentioned in the rule book.

(I have indeed used an email on my phone as a form of documentation to show a coach)

[CJP]

Originally Posted by bucky

Not sure why you say this. The book mentions documentation and a waiver is certainly a form of documentation. Documentation can come in many, many different forms. The rule book is certainly not going to list every single piece of form so they use a broad term, "documentation". So, because the specific word "waiver" is not listed, would you accept an email/voice mail/hand-written note/text/etc from the state association? I am guessing that you would but those forms of documentation are not mentioned in the rule book.

(I have indeed used an email on my phone as a form of documentation to show a coach)

I am aware of what is not listed. We are to use prudent judgment while applying the rules. I believe that is what the state's position was. I don't judge the officials for making the ruling they did. I am simply saying what I would have done.

I am going to accept the fact that there is an exception to the rule and apply my own common sense that her religion requires her to cover her head. The game was not close and the coach wanted to let her play, so be it. No harm at all.

I am done with the thread. Have a wonderful day.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CJP

I am not asking for it. The kid would have played and none of this would have happened. No one would have mentioned it just like no one mentioned illegal headbands in the state championship game shown on the other thread.

The fact is that there is a religious exception for covering a players head. I am not going to ask someone to prove their religion. That is just me.

Then you are passing the buck to the official that follows you...just so you can avoid a potentially difficult situation. Not cool.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Then you are passing the buck to the official that follows you...just so you can avoid a potentially difficult situation. Not cool.

Since you put it that way, I would have let her play and told the coach to ensure she gets the waiver next season. It was a loser out game and they had no chance of winning. Common sense.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CJP

Since you put it that way, I would have let her play and told the coach to ensure she gets the waiver next season. It was a loser out game and they had no chance of winning. Common sense.

The decision was made prior to the game not when she tried to check in. Her coach did not inform her of this decision. It's not like it all the sudden popped up at the end of a 30-point blowout or something.

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[Rich]

Originally Posted by CJP

I am not asking for it. The kid would have played and none of this would have happened. No one would have mentioned it just like no one mentioned illegal headbands in the state championship game shown on the other thread.

The fact is that there is a religious exception for covering a players head. I am not going to ask someone to prove their religion. That is just me.

You aren't asking them to prove their religion. You're asking them to prove they followed the rules which any decent coach would've done the second he knew he had a player wearing a head covering.

I'll admit this -- I would've likely made a phone call during warmups.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Rich

You aren't asking them to prove their religion. You're asking them to prove they followed the rules which any decent coach would've done the second he knew he had a player wearing a head covering.

I'll admit this -- I would've likely made a phone call during warmups.

I will put myself in those shoes and the phone call would go something like this. "I have a player wearing a hijab. I asked the coach to produce a waiver and said she played all year without one. The coach also said she does not play much varsity". The official on the phone would hopefully say something like "We should not punish the kid. Being she does not play much anyway, lets not make a big deal about this. If she sees the floor, no problem, let her play. If they win we will get her the waiver before the next game. If they lose remind the coach that she should get the waiver next year." According to the news paper I would not be far off on this.