End of game timing issue

[just another ref]

Tonight, BV, I am the R. Inside 30 seconds, home hits a 3 to cut the lead to 3. Visitors quickly inbound against pressure. V1 beats his man off the dribble.
Defender tries to recover, but commits an obvious foul near the sideline, probably 10-15 feet from the division line. I make the call from trail. But now partner steps in from the lead and says "No, I had a timeout." I did not hear his whistle at all. He reported the timeout, called by the home team. I stepped up and asked when the request was made. He said it was on the made basket. OK. Clock shows 9 seconds. But, when the teams break out of the huddle, someone points, and I see that the clock now shows 16 seconds. I step up and ask the timer what the deal is. He says basically, that even though he stopped it on the whistle, he knew that a considerable amount of time had elapsed after the shot was made and ball was put back in play. He also apparently knew that the only time Home could have properly been granted the timeout was before the ball became live again. So, he adjusted the time back to where he estimated it should have been. I asked my partner if he knew what was on the clock when he granted the timeout. He said "No, but let's just leave the 16 up there and get this over with."

What would you have done?

[zm1283]

Use your backcourt count and add whatever time elapsed to the 9 seconds that are up there. So if you were at 3, put 12 up. If you knew how far you got into your 5 second count on the throw-in, couldn't you also add that time back on? So 2 seconds for the throw-in, maybe 3 for the backcourt count....add 5 to the 9 that are up there.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't let the time arbitrarily put up however much time he wanted. Your partner needs bigger balls too.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Use your backcourt count and add whatever time elapsed to the 9 seconds that are up there. So if you were at 3, put 12 up. If you knew how far you got into your 5 second count on the throw-in, couldn't you also add that time back on? So 2 seconds for the throw-in, maybe 3 for the backcourt count....add 5 to the 9 that are up there.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't let the time arbitrarily put up however much time he wanted. Your partner needs bigger balls too.

+1.

Always be counting during the last 30 seconds or so of a close game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Always be counting during the last 30 seconds or so of a close game.

The last thirty seconds of a close game sounds like a Cape Canaveral countdown is going on in my head. T Minus 30. T Minus 29. T Minus 28 ...

[26 Year Gap]

The key element is definite knowledge. As others have said, keeping a count gives you that definite knowledge. When I notice the clock is not moving and I am the trail official in the backcourt, I will verbalize "Clock! Clock!" while continuing my count as I near the table. Once I see the clock tick down [and this should be in the periphrery--you should not discontinue watching players], I know how much time has elapsed and it can be adjusted at the next dead ball. I will defer to others as to blowing the whistle if it is near the end of the game and the score is tight. I don't want to be that guy that blows the whistle for game over when the clock reads 0:05.3.

The table guy was using the seat of his pants and that just isn't good enough.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by zm1283

. . . I wouldn't let the time arbitrarily put up however much time he wanted.

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

. . . The table guy was using the seat of his pants and that just isn't good enough.

I agree with both of these statments. Particularly as they pertain to the OP.

But if the "table guy" (Timer) can tell you that he definitely knew there was 16 seconds left when he started (erroneously) the clock, that would qualify as definite knowledge. The timer is part of our crew and it is good enough for me.

I am not disagreeing with anything said here. I am only saying that the timer and scorer and the other officials can be used by the referee to gain definite knowledge. Just didn't want this thread to lead anyone to believe that the timer could not help.

[just another ref]

Perhaps I didn't make this clear. The timer maintained that he stopped the clock on the first whistle he heard. But he knew that this occurred significantly after the ball was put back in play. It was my impression that my partner granted the timeout waaaaaaaaaaaay late. He was unable to supply any knowledge about the time when he recognized and/or signalled the timeout.

So, this leaves us with.....

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So, this leaves us with.....

A mess!

In this scenario there isn't any calculating of time to do since the home team could not have called a TO once the 5 count started.

If no one knows, no one knows! You don't have definite knowledge and the time on the clock is all you have. IMHO