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-   -   HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102411-hijab-issue-maryland-playoff-game.html)

chymechowder Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:49am

HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME
 
Not to derail, but I saw this today and thought it was related--at least along the garbage lines of suggesting racial bias on the part of the officials:

HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.e5f287fdece4

"But we've done this all year and it's never been a problem" / "That hasn't been called a foul all season" is one of my favorite refrains from coaches.

Rich Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 1002477)
Not to derail, but I saw this today and thought it was related--at least along the garbage lines of suggesting racial bias on the part of the officials:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.e5f287fdece4

"But we've done this all year and it's never been a problem" / "That hasn't been called a foul all season" is one of my favorite refrains from coaches.

I saw this story while traveling yesterday.

The governing body threw this crew under the bus and drove it over them a few times.

CJP Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 1002477)
Not to derail, but I saw this today and thought it was related--at least along the garbage lines of suggesting racial bias on the part of the officials:

HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.e5f287fdece4

"But we've done this all year and it's never been a problem" / "That hasn't been called a foul all season" is one of my favorite refrains from coaches.

I would have let her play and not thought twice about asking for "documentation".

jTheUmp Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:45am

RE: the hijab issue... how am I, as the official assigned to that game, supposed to know if the proper documentation has been submitted to the state or not?

To me, it's similar to a player-eligiblity question... if anyone brings it up as a concern, I'll tell them to file a report with the state after the game.

I've had several games the last few years with players wearing hijabs... it's a non-issue.

Camron Rust Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 1002483)
RE: the hijab issue... how am I, as the official assigned to that game, supposed to know if the proper documentation has been submitted to the state or not?

To me, it's similar to a player-eligiblity question... if anyone brings it up as a concern, I'll tell them to file a report with the state after the game.

I've had several games the last few years with players wearing hijabs... it's a non-issue.

The problem with that assumption is that, by default, the headwear is illegal. It takes an exception to make it legal. You know if they have the waiver by asking for it. If the team has a waiver for it, they should have a copy of it ready to present....or it should be communicated to your organization as a whole. We has such a case here. The state notified the association that it was approved and the association told all officials that player X at school Y had a waiver from the state. Her coach took care of business and that was the end of that.

Players, on the other hand, don't require special permission to play, generally. Being ineligible is the exception.

By not asking and letting players play with illegal clothing, you are making yourself part of the problem. Such inaction leads to articles like the above.

CJP Wed Mar 15, 2017 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1002484)
The problem with that assumption is that, by default, the headwear is illegal. It takes an exception to make it legal. You know if they have the waiver by asking for it. If the team has a waiver for it, they should have a copy of it ready to present....or it should be communicated to your organization as a whole. We has such a case here. The state notified the association that it was approved and the association told all officials that player X at school Y had a waiver from the state. Her coach took care of business and that was the end of that.

Players, on the other hand, don't require special permission to play, generally. Being ineligible is the exception.

By not asking and letting players play with illegal clothing, you are making yourself part of the problem. Such inaction leads to articles like the above.

I still would have let her play without asking for documentation. I know and understand it is for religious reasons. I don't think this is being part of any "problem". I think it is using common sense. On the other hand, I see "illegal headbands" in a state championship game shown in another thread. I would have made them remove those. I think those types of things getting let go are being "part of the problem".

deecee Wed Mar 15, 2017 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJP (Post 1002487)
I still would have let her play without asking for documentation. I know and understand it is for religious reasons. I don't think this is being part of any "problem". I think it is using common sense. On the other hand, I see "illegal headbands" in a state championship game shown in another thread. I would have made them remove those. I think those types of things getting let go are being "part of the problem".

The best way to guarantee participants get to participate. Follow the rules. What an official chooses to ignore is no normal and if an official follows the rules, for their association to throw them under like that... I would have send an email to the whole associations telling the governing body to go F themselves. If I mess up I'll own it, if my association wants to they can own it. I don't make enough officiating to get run over by players/fans/coaches/ and my own association.

crosscountry55 Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:06pm

Hijab: Yes, the governing body responded horribly. Take a neutral stance with an eye toward future adjustments, at least. Sheesh.

Diversity training? Give me a break! Waste of time and a politically correct overreaction. The rule is outdated and needs some tweaking for common items such as hijabs and yarmulkas, which I doubt would become abused and unsafe fashion trends on their own. Unfortunately sometimes it takes an unfortunate circumstance like this one to get the committee's attention. I'll bet it did, and I'll bet we see a change in April. That would be a worthy victory for common sense.


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CJP Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1002488)
The best way to guarantee participants get to participate. Follow the rules. What an official chooses to ignore is no normal and if an official follows the rules, for their association to throw them under like that... I would have send an email to the whole associations telling the governing body to go F themselves. If I mess up I'll own it, if my association wants to they can own it. I don't make enough officiating to get run over by players/fans/coaches/ and my own association.

But there is an exception for the headwear in this case. I think having some common sense and understanding the intent of the rule regarding the exception to the headband comes into play here. There is obviously an exception so why not take things for face value and let the kid play? Why ask for documentation? All I am saying is that I am not asking.

deecee Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJP (Post 1002495)
But there is an exception for the headwear in this case. I think having some common sense and understanding the intent of the rule regarding the exception to the headband comes into play here. There is obviously an exception so why not take things for face value and let the kid play? Why ask for documentation? All I am saying is that I am not asking.

What is the exception?

CJP Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1002496)
What is the exception?

That a player can cover their head for religious reasons.

Rich Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp (Post 1002498)
that a player can cover their head for religious reasons.


with a waiver.

Raymond Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 1002477)
Not to derail, but I saw this today and thought it was related--at least along the garbage lines of suggesting racial bias on the part of the officials:

HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.e5f287fdece4

"But we've done this all year and it's never been a problem" / "That hasn't been called a foul all season" is one of my favorite refrains from coaches.

Actually in this case, it appears that it hadn't been addressed all season. The play-off crew properly addressed it and the state governing body threw them under the bus, as Rich stated.

This falls on the servicing association (MultipleSports??) and the school's AD. Both or either should have addressed this with the state governing body way back in December.

bucky Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 1002471)
The call in question is at about the 1:45:30 mark... not a good angle on the initial view, but the replay at 1:46:15ish shows it clearly.

Also, white coach should've been whacked before the free throws for the foul... he was on the floor, across midcourt, nearly all the way to the black team's free throw line.

Lol, I was too focused on the black/red leg/arm sleeves on 2 players for the home team.

I could go on and on about the hijab issue. I have had games with that situation and each time the team provided the direct documentation. How could that many officials not inform the school/state association/other officials/the player/AD/etc? How could it not be common knowledge that that school had a player wearing one and it not be addressed waaaaaay in advance? How could the state association react that way? How could all of the previous officials not be disciplined in some way? Why would the state association care about the NFHS when they can create their own allowed deviation from the rule just as shot clocks, coaching boxes, and other rules are? How could the AD not have investigated at the beginning of the school year when discovering a student might possibly participate? How could the player/coach/parents not have inquired with all school officials before the season began? Why didn't the player remove it to play? Oh, you mean she did not want to deviate from her religion's rule but they all want the officials to deviate from the rules? (yea, that is a little extreme but still) OK, rant over and it appears that i did go on and on anyway. Sorry, no need for anyone to respond to me, just bugs me big time when something negative happens to a student athlete as the result of a whole bunch of people (adults) not acting appropriately. I will expect fine coming for post containing too many words:)

CJP Wed Mar 15, 2017 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1002500)
with a waiver.

I am not asking for it. The kid would have played and none of this would have happened. No one would have mentioned it just like no one mentioned illegal headbands in the state championship game shown on the other thread.

The fact is that there is a religious exception for covering a players head. I am not going to ask someone to prove their religion. That is just me.


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