NCAA: Coach Requesting a Timeout Under 1 Minute?

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

Originally Posted by deecee

You cannot do what BNR suggested. The clock is legally stopped. The coach can legally call a TO. The only thing that cannot be done, I'm fairly sure of this, is call in substitutions during an IW stoppage of play.

There are two case plays from the 2016-17 NCAA Casebook that deals with IW timeout requests:

AR 46 Pg 17
Team A scores with 59.9 seconds left to play in the second half.
2. The official inadvertently blows his whistle to recognize a timeout
request by Team A when the ball is at Team B’s disposal for a throw-in:

RULING:
2: The inadvertent whistle shall be ignored. When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and
granted since the request occurred during the dead ball created by the inadvertent whistle. Substitutions are permitted during this
timeout period. However, when a timeout is not requested, there
shall be no substitution during the dead ball period created by the
inadvertent whistle.
(Rule 3-6.1.h)

A.R. 132, Pg 45
Player A1 is airborne and momentum is carrying him out of
bounds. A1, while airborne and in control of the ball, requests a timeout.
The official:
1. Inadvertently blows the whistle; or
2. Blows the whistle and immediately grants a timeout.

RULING: In both (1) and (2), the officials shall not recognize this
request. The official’s whistle is an inadvertent whistle that caused the
ball to become dead. Play will be resumed at the point of interruption
by awarding the ball to Team A, the team in control, at a designated
spot nearest to where the ball was located. Before placing the ball at
Team A’s disposal for a throw-in, the official is permitted to inquire as
to whether Team A still wants a timeout.
(Rule 5-15.1.c, 4-20, 4-27.1.a, and 7-4.17)

The fine line is if the official will "inquire" the Coach who requested the timeout if he still wants the timeout. Putting the ball immediately back in play by the official appears as a viable option.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

There are two case plays from the 2016-17 NCAA Casebook that deals with IW timeout requests:



The fine line is if the official will "inquire" the Coach who requested the timeout if he still wants the timeout. Putting the ball immediately back in play by the official appears as a viable option.

Isn't the part about a dead ball "When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and.." incorrect?

When at the disposal for a throw-in, the ball is live. Looks like a typo.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

There are two case plays from the 2016-17 NCAA Casebook that deals with IW timeout requests:



The fine line is if the official will "inquire" the Coach who requested the timeout if he still wants the timeout. Putting the ball immediately back in play by the official appears as a viable option.

You have misunderstood the rulings. One play involves a coach requesting a TO when they are not allowed, and the other is a player. Saying the official is permitted to inquire if they still want the TO is an acknowledgement that ONE hasn't been granted yet, it's not "an official can flat out ignore a legal TO request."

Also NOT granting a coach a TO when he can legally request one (during a stoppage of play) will guarantee a call from your assignor IF the coach contacts said assignor (which in my experience with this stuff they will).

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by deecee

You have misunderstood the rulings. One play involves a coach requesting a TO when they are not allowed, and the other is a player. Saying the official is permitted to inquire if they still want the TO is an acknowledgement that ONE hasn't been granted yet, it's not "an official can flat out ignore a legal TO request."

Also NOT granting a coach a TO when he can legally request one (during a stoppage of play) will guarantee a call from your assignor IF the coach contacts said assignor (which in my experience with this stuff they will).

I agree with this, but please correct me if I'm wrong;

During both case plays when the TOs are requested, is the ball live (in-play)?

The ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in and the other a player is airborne. During these plays, TOs can be requested but not legally granted. If they are granted by the official, it is an IW. At this point, the official "is permitted to inquire as to whether Team A still wants a timeout." The official can say at the spot, " My IW, the coach is not allowed to request a TO." It is up to the official if he wants to to put the ball in play or ask if the Coach A still wants a TO; at least that is what I am understanding.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

I agree with this, but please correct me if I'm wrong;

During both case plays when the TOs are requested, is the ball live (in-play)?

The ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in and the other a player is airborne. During these plays, TOs can be requested but not legally granted. If they are granted by the official, it is an IW.

They are not granted. The whistle causes the ball to be dead, when it shouldn't be. This is an inadvertent whistle. Since play is dead anyone can legally request a TO. You can't ignore a coach simply because you screwed up. Own it and move on.

In cases when it's a throw in ANYONE (from team with ball) can "call" a TO. In cases where a player is airborne falling OOB NOONE can "call" a TO.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by deecee

They are not granted. The whistle causes the ball to be dead, when it shouldn't be. This is an inadvertent whistle. Since play is dead anyone can legally request a TO. You can't ignore a coach simply because you screwed up. Own it and move on.

In cases when it's a throw in ANYONE can "call" a TO. In cases where a player is airborne falling OOB NOONE can "call" a TO.

Sorry about that, I was editing my last post when you replied back. My use of "granted" was mis-applied during the 2nd statement.

Yes, the IW caused the ball to be dead and anyone can legally request a TO at that point. But the onus is on the Coach or player to request a TO during this deadball period after the IW. The official can inquire if the Coach still wants the TO or put the ball back in play explaining it was an IW (as I understand it).

Players and coaches can call/request for a TO whenever they want; it is up to official to blow the whistle and grant the TO at the appropriate moment.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Sorry about that, I was editing my last post when you replied back. My use of "granted" was mis-applied during the 2nd statement.

Yes, the IW caused the ball to be dead and anyone can legally request a TO at that point. But the onus is on the Coach or player to request a TO during this deadball period after the IW. The official can inquire if the Coach still wants the TO or put the ball back in play explaining it was an IW (as I understand it).

Players and coaches can call/request for a TO whenever they want; it is up to official to blow the whistle and grant the TO at the appropriate moment.

I'm going to always query the coach. A "smart" coach would say no and save the TO.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

Isn't the part about a dead ball "When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and.." incorrect?

No -- it's correct.

The TO requested while the ball was at the disposal is inpored. But if A requests a TO during the deadball created by the IW, that request is honored.

And, the official can ask if A still wants the TO. If A requests a TO, whether or not the official asks, the TO should be granted.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No -- it's correct.

The TO requested while the ball was at the disposal is inpored. But if A requests a TO during the deadball created by the IW, that request is honored.

And, the official can ask if A still wants the TO. If A requests a TO, whether or not the official asks, the TO should be granted.

Yes, correct, they meant the dead ball during the IW, not a dead ball when the ball was at the disposal of the throw-in team.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by deecee

He is right. Coaches can call a TO during an inbounds attempt. However the TO in this video was erroneously awarded. Even if you have an IW, you can then grant the TO.

And quite frankly no one is loosing a game over such a call, unless it happens multiple times or is a pattern with an official/crew.

No his statement wasn't correct, it was not about the specific play in the video, it was a blanket statement that coaches cannot ever call time out while the ball is live in NCAA-M. Additionally, my response did not say anything about the play in question, it specifically disputed the statement coaches cannot call time outs at any time the ball is live.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Wow, indeed. That was an absolute mess ...

This is off-topic to the main question of the the thread, but I just spent awhile trying to figure out how the foul (that was eventually rescinded) was NOT a TC foul against Gold for shoving White to the floor with two hands to the chest.

When I saw who they sent to the line, I had to watch it again just to see what happened to him while his teammate was dumping someone to the deck.

Tough situation all around, capped by resuming play from the wrong inbounds spot. But hey, we've all been in similar nightmares with different specifics ...

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

No his statement wasn't correct, it was not about the specific play in the video, it was a blanket statement that coaches cannot ever call time out while the ball is live in NCAA-M. Additionally, my response did not say anything about the play in question, it specifically disputed the statement coaches cannot call time outs at any time the ball is live.

I was agreeing with you. He = Johnny d

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

You cannot do what BNR suggested. The clock is legally stopped. The coach can legally call a TO. The only thing that cannot be done, I'm fairly sure of this, is call in substitutions during an IW stoppage of play.

I cannot do what in college basketball? In college basketball is an inadvertent whistle. And I'm not going to stand around ask the coach if he still wants the time out. Don't call me wrong when you don't know what you're talking about. At no point did I say it would not Grant a timeout requested while the ball was dead.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

What rule or caseplay are you using to not grant the time out during a stoppage in play?

The NCAA Men's rule book

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[deecee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NCAA Men's rule book

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Please provide the citation where you are allowed to NOT grant a TO during an IW.