NCAA: Coach Requesting a Timeout Under 1 Minute?

[Smoothieking]

Can a coach request a timeout during a live ball with under 1 minute left to play in the game? I cannot find any mention of this in the NCAA rule or casebook.

Situation: :22.5 left in second half. V in possession of the ball. T, who is standing next to V bench blows whistle and raises open palm to indicate a timeout has been granted to V as requested by V coach. At virtually the same time, L blows whistle and raises fist to indicate a foul on H. The officials confer and rule that timeout request came first. V coach argues that a timeout cannot be called from bench during a live ball. Officials confer, agree with V coach and decide to report the foul, which will lead to free throws for V. H coach starts arguing that the bench can call a timeout under 1 minute. L & T confer with H coach and decide, that, yes, this is correct, and re-report to the table that the timeout has indeed been granted, the foul is rescinded, and that there will be a throw in after the time out.

You can see what happened here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hawlzWa1NE#t=2h12m12s

[jpgc99]

Wow.

Didn't watch the video, but coach cannot call a live ball timeout at any point in the game. However, if the officials determine the whistle for the timeout came before the foul, this should be treated as an inadvertent whistle. You can't pretend that it didn't happen and decide to enforce the foul.

[crosscountry55]

Wow, indeed. That was an absolute mess. I agree with jpcg99's assessment.

Maybe C does more HS games then college games, brain farted, and just had an IW? In any case, the crew was leaderless and no one stepped up to logically get them to resolution. If jpcg99 is on that crew, he says, "Look, coach can't call that TO, so what happened first, the IW or the foul?" Answer that question, then proceed accordingly after the obligatory explanations to the coaches. Should take no more than 45 seconds to do all of that.

I believe there may be a suspension looming.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Wow, indeed. That was an absolute mess. I agree with jpcg99's assessment.

Maybe C does more HS games then college games, brain farted, and just had an IW? In any case, the crew was leaderless and no one stepped up to logically get them to resolution. If jpcg99 is on that crew, he says, "Look, coach can't call that TO, so what happened first, the IW or the foul?" Answer that question, then proceed accordingly after the obligatory explanations to the coaches. Should take no more than 45 seconds to do all of that.

I believe there may be a suspension looming.

Where's the balderdash smiley? What is there to answer, even if you have an IW you can then grant the TO, or the coach can say nah I don't want the TO and you put the ball in play (option 2 is less likely and would take a special a**hat coach to incinerate his bridge).

[bob jenkins]

The NCAAW rule is different.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

Where's the balderdash smiley? What is there to answer, even if you have an IW you can then grant the TO, or the coach can say nah I don't want the TO and you put the ball in play (option 2 is less likely and would take a special a**hat coach to incinerate his bridge).

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

What rule or caseplay are you using to not grant the time out during a stoppage in play?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

Probably not as much of a deal in college, since the clock stops anyway, but do you really have that option in NCAA? In HS, you grant the TO. Primarily because the rule says to, but to me, it's the worst option to give him a chance to stop the clock and/or set up his press without having to also burn the timeout.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

Originally Posted by deecee

You cannot do what BNR suggested. The clock is legally stopped. The coach can legally call a TO. The only thing that cannot be done, I'm fairly sure of this, is call in substitutions during an IW stoppage of play.

There are two case plays from the 2016-17 NCAA Casebook that deals with IW timeout requests:

AR 46 Pg 17
Team A scores with 59.9 seconds left to play in the second half.
2. The official inadvertently blows his whistle to recognize a timeout
request by Team A when the ball is at Team B’s disposal for a throw-in:

RULING:
2: The inadvertent whistle shall be ignored. When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and
granted since the request occurred during the dead ball created by the inadvertent whistle. Substitutions are permitted during this
timeout period. However, when a timeout is not requested, there
shall be no substitution during the dead ball period created by the
inadvertent whistle.
(Rule 3-6.1.h)

A.R. 132, Pg 45
Player A1 is airborne and momentum is carrying him out of
bounds. A1, while airborne and in control of the ball, requests a timeout.
The official:
1. Inadvertently blows the whistle; or
2. Blows the whistle and immediately grants a timeout.

RULING: In both (1) and (2), the officials shall not recognize this
request. The official’s whistle is an inadvertent whistle that caused the
ball to become dead. Play will be resumed at the point of interruption
by awarding the ball to Team A, the team in control, at a designated
spot nearest to where the ball was located. Before placing the ball at
Team A’s disposal for a throw-in, the official is permitted to inquire as
to whether Team A still wants a timeout.
(Rule 5-15.1.c, 4-20, 4-27.1.a, and 7-4.17)

The fine line is if the official will "inquire" the Coach who requested the timeout if he still wants the timeout. Putting the ball immediately back in play by the official appears as a viable option.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Wow, indeed. That was an absolute mess ...

This is off-topic to the main question of the the thread, but I just spent awhile trying to figure out how the foul (that was eventually rescinded) was NOT a TC foul against Gold for shoving White to the floor with two hands to the chest.

When I saw who they sent to the line, I had to watch it again just to see what happened to him while his teammate was dumping someone to the deck.

Tough situation all around, capped by resuming play from the wrong inbounds spot. But hey, we've all been in similar nightmares with different specifics ...

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Wow.

Didn't watch the video, but coach cannot call a live ball timeout at any point in the game. However, if the officials determine the whistle for the timeout came before the foul, this should be treated as an inadvertent whistle. You can't pretend that it didn't happen and decide to enforce the foul.

This part of your statement is not true in NCAA-M. The rule has been modified this season.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This part of your statement is not true in NCAA-M. The rule has been modified this season.

He is right. Coaches can call a TO during an inbounds attempt. However the TO in this video was erroneously awarded. Even if you have an IW, you can then grant the TO.

And quite frankly no one is loosing a game over such a call, unless it happens multiple times or is a pattern with an official/crew.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by deecee

He is right. Coaches can call a TO during an inbounds attempt. However the TO in this video was erroneously awarded. Even if you have an IW, you can then grant the TO.

And quite frankly no one is loosing a game over such a call, unless it happens multiple times or is a pattern with an official/crew.

No his statement wasn't correct, it was not about the specific play in the video, it was a blanket statement that coaches cannot ever call time out while the ball is live in NCAA-M. Additionally, my response did not say anything about the play in question, it specifically disputed the statement coaches cannot call time outs at any time the ball is live.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

No his statement wasn't correct, it was not about the specific play in the video, it was a blanket statement that coaches cannot ever call time out while the ball is live in NCAA-M. Additionally, my response did not say anything about the play in question, it specifically disputed the statement coaches cannot call time outs at any time the ball is live.

I was agreeing with you. He = Johnny d

[BigT]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This part of your statement is not true in NCAA-M. The rule has been modified this season.

Johnny what is the rule for HC calling TO in NCAA-M?