Backboard slap - BI?

[bucky]

After AremRed's first response, I expected there to be no more.

Not sure what an internet fight is and I do play/coach/officiate/spectate.

Anyway, had a HS game the other night and I was L. Breakaway layup that was on the rim but defender tried to block it(missed it) and slapped the backboard quite hard. Suddenly, the T whistles, runs in, and signals the basket good. The C and I exchange puzzled looks and play continues. It was as if a hush fell across the packed gym and you could feel that everyone was internally questioning the call.

The next day, I was working a college game and we discussed that playand other BI/GT scenarios. Sure enough, we had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

I have had the backboard slap many, many times in HS games and have never seen an official score the basket. When it happened in the HS game, do you think I or my other partner should have stopped the game and brought info to the calling official at that point? Can we "wave off" a scored basket and then administer the Technical foul if we think it is warranted?

If I recall, the layup did not go in. So, if we cancel the BI call, which to me would cause more trouble than it is worth, do we administer as an IW and go to A/P?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

If the ball was outside the cylinder, and had chance to go in, correct goaltending call in a high school game. I can't speak in regard to NCAA rules.

Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket.

If the ball was inside the cylinder, correct basket interference call in a high school game. I can't speak in regard to NCAA rules.

A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bucky

After AremRed's first response, I expected there to be no more.

Not sure what an internet fight is and I do play/coach/officiate/spectate.

Anyway, had a HS game the other night and I was L. Breakaway layup that was on the rim but defender tried to block it(missed it) and slapped the backboard quite hard. Suddenly, the T whistles, runs in, and signals the basket good. The C and I exchange puzzled looks and play continues. It was as if a hush fell across the packed gym and you could feel that everyone was internally questioning the call.

The next day, I was working a college game and we discussed that playand other BI/GT scenarios. Sure enough, we had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

I have had the backboard slap many, many times in HS games and have never seen an official score the basket. When it happened in the HS game, do you think I or my other partner should have stopped the game and brought info to the calling official at that point? Can we "wave off" a scored basket and then administer the Technical foul if we think it is warranted?

If I recall, the layup did not go in. So, if we cancel the BI call, which to me would cause more trouble than it is worth, do we administer as an IW and go to A/P?

If you are an official who works at the HS and college levels, you should already know the answers to these questions which you have been posting.
We also had a thread a few weeks ago on the exact situation which you claim to have experienced--a partner misapplies the NFHS rule and awards points for a backboard slap. I'm shocked that an experienced official would do nothing when that occurs.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bucky

After AremRed's first response, I expected there to be no more.

Not sure what an internet fight is and I do play/coach/officiate/spectate.

Anyway, had a HS game the other night and I was L. Breakaway layup that was on the rim but defender tried to block it(missed it) and slapped the backboard quite hard. Suddenly, the T whistles, runs in, and signals the basket good. The C and I exchange puzzled looks and play continues. It was as if a hush fell across the packed gym and you could feel that everyone was internally questioning the call.

The next day, I was working a college game and we discussed that playand other BI/GT scenarios. Sure enough, we had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

I have had the backboard slap many, many times in HS games and have never seen an official score the basket. When it happened in the HS game, do you think I or my other partner should have stopped the game and brought info to the calling official at that point? Can we "wave off" a scored basket and then administer the Technical foul if we think it is warranted?

If I recall, the layup did not go in. So, if we cancel the BI call, which to me would cause more trouble than it is worth, do we administer as an IW and go to A/P?

Your questions raise more questions. Read the rules and case book over and over. Your questions and tag line still tell me your not a referee. U might put a shirt on every now and then but...,Refereees don't ask questions or make declarations as you are. That disappoints me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Your questions and tag line still tell me your not a referee.

I don't believe that the Forum is just for officials. I believe that we have several coaches, players, and fans, who often participate in our discussions.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't believe that the Forum is just for officials. I believe that we have several coaches, players, and fans, who often participate in our discussions.

We do, but this particular poster has written that he is both a HS and college official.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If you are an official who works at the HS and college levels, you should already know the answers to these questions which you have been posting.
We also had a thread a few weeks ago on the exact situation which you claim to have experienced--a partner misapplies the NFHS rule and awards points for a backboard slap. I'm shocked that an experienced official would do nothing when that occurs.

So, presuming that you are an experienced referee, what would you hypothetically do in the situation where your partner awards points for the backboard slap in a HS game where the ball did not go in?

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by bucky

So, presuming that you are an experienced referee, what would you hypothetically do in the situation where your partner awards points for the backboard slap in a HS game where the ball did not go in?

Stop play, confirm that that was in fact what he was calling, and if so, wipe the score (assuming the shot was missed) and go the AP arrow due to an inadvertent whistle.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Stop play, confirm that that was in fact what he was calling, and if so, wipe the score (assuming the shot was missed) and go the AP arrow due to an inadvertent whistle.

Sure, makes sense to me, but I can't imagine the embarrassment for the calling official and/or the crew as a whole. By asking, I was trying to get an idea if it would be worth it to most officials here. Think about it, the team that just got 2 points awarded has them taken away so they are not happy. There would have to be a quick conference with the crew and that might not go well if the calling official debates it. There would have to probably be a quick conference with the coaches and table to explain. Players and spectators are going to be confused. It just seems that there could very well be a huge cluster in the middle of a flowing game. Plus, overuling a partner might even have long-term ramifications. I am not saying that it is not correct, just trying to get a feel for how many officials would actually risk all that at the expense of getting that particular call correct.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by bucky

Sure, makes sense to me, but I can't imagine the embarrassment for the calling official and/or the crew as a whole. By asking, I was trying to get an idea if it would be worth it to most officials here. Think about it, the team that just got 2 points awarded has them taken away so they are not happy. There would have to be a quick conference with the crew and that might not go well if the calling official debates it. There would have to probably be a quick conference with the coaches and table to explain. Players and spectators are going to be confused. It just seems that there could very well be a huge cluster in the middle of a flowing game. Plus, overuling a partner might even have long-term ramifications. I am not saying that it is not correct, just trying to get a feel for how many officials would actually risk all that at the expense of getting that particular call correct.

Getting the call right is more important than saving someone embarrassment. Come on now.

As far as the coaches, if they're still upset after you explain that by rule they can't earn 2 points that way, it's on them.

And if your partner gets butthurt about you knowing the rules better than he does, that's also on him. That's why there are 3 of us, so we don't screw up simple things like this. This isn't overruling a call, it's literally knowing what the rules allow and don't.

So if you pass on this, and the game ends up being decided by a possession or two, are you still happy with the decision?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... a flowing game ....

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Getting the call right is more important than saving someone embarrassment.

Agree.

[deecee]

This happened in a game for me last year. Partner calls the T as the T, and I thought it was a great block attempt. I asked him if he thought it was a legal block attempt, which is the threshold at the HS level. He said he did not, that ended the conversation and we adjudicated the penalty.

I thought he was wrong since the play was on a fast break and I had a pretty good angle, and quite frankly the kid barely missed the block (although the backboard was hit very hard, I think its the severity of the hit to the backboard that throws guys off). I'm not going to argue, he cited all I needed to hear for his call, he gets to defend it to the coach, and we move on with the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Partner calls the T as the T, and I thought it was a great block attempt. I asked him if he thought it was a legal block attempt, which is the threshold at the HS level. He said he did not, that ended the conversation and we adjudicated the penalty..

Good conversation. Give rule based, factual, information. Nobody questioning judgment. No overruling. Short and sweet. Doesn't interrupt the "flow" of the game (just kidding on the "flow" part).

Originally Posted by bucky

After AremRed's first response, I expected there to be no more.

Not sure what an internet fight is and I do play/coach/officiate/spectate.

Anyway, had a HS game the other night and I was L. Breakaway layup that was on the rim but defender tried to block it(missed it) and slapped the backboard quite hard. Suddenly, the T whistles, runs in, and signals the basket good. The C and I exchange puzzled looks and play continues. It was as if a hush fell across the packed gym and you could feel that everyone was internally questioning the call.

The next day, I was working a college game and we discussed that playand other BI/GT scenarios. Sure enough, we had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

I have had the backboard slap many, many times in HS games and have never seen an official score the basket. When it happened in the HS game, do you think I or my other partner should have stopped the game and brought info to the calling official at that point? Can we "wave off" a scored basket and then administer the Technical foul if we think it is warranted?

If I recall, the layup did not go in. So, if we cancel the BI call, which to me would cause more trouble than it is worth, do we administer as an IW and go to A/P?

I would expect a college official to know the rules and interpretations of the various rule sets they are working, as well as how to correct partners rules mistakes.

[hoopologist]

As a coach, I prefer the crew to get the call right. Flow of the game and the feelings of coaches/officials are, to say the least, secondary.

I do appreciate the insight into rules and the complexities in enforcing them. I've had this very conversation with a referee recently (HSBV) and I now have come to understand the backboard can be slapped and unless the ring/backboard are moving such that they disrupt a try for goal, there's no call to be made, save for a T which sounds like a very rare and perhaps tough call to make.