Backcourt Violation or Not?

[Freddy]

Rule 4-4-6: "During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt."
Does that rule, in and of itself, mean that the play in this clip should not have been ruled a backcourt violation?
Does the Three Point Principle Prevail or Not?
(Sorry for the less-than-ideal quality of the clip...)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Rule 4-4-6: "During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt."
Does that rule, in and of itself, mean that the play in this clip should not have been ruled a backcourt violation?
Does the Three Point Principle Prevail or Not?
(Sorry for the less-than-ideal quality of the clip...)

Looks to me as if she Ends dribble with both feet in FC. Passes to BC. Teammate catches. Last and first. Violation. If she's truly dribbling the ball with hand on top and doesn't end it and ball goes over to teammate you say it never gain d FC status. No violation.,

[HokiePaul]

When she picks up the ball to throw the pass, the dribble has ended. At that point, she either has both feet in the frontcourt or one foot in the frontcourt and one foot on the line (backcourt). Video is inconclusive in my opinion but that would be the determining factor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

When she picks up the ball to throw the pass, the dribble has ended. At that point, she either has both feet in the frontcourt or one foot in the frontcourt and one foot on the line (backcourt). Video is inconclusive in my opinion but that would be the determining factor.

I think looking at it again other foot is in air. Still gives FC status. Dribble rule isn't a factor for me. I think she ends dribble so her location at that moment is key. 3 points doesn't apply.

[bucky]

In my opinion, she never has both feet in front court while dribbling/controlling the ball, thus ball never gains front court status. Ergo, no violation. Someone indicated foot in air, still gives FC status. Maybe for player but not the ball, and ball has to have FC status for a BC violation.

Yes, tough to really make good judgement with low-quality video.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bucky

In my opinion, she never has both feet in front court while dribbling/controlling the ball, thus ball never gains front court status. Ergo, no violation. Someone indicated foot in air, still gives FC status. Maybe for player but not the ball, and ball has to have FC status for a BC violation.



Yes, tough to really make good judgement with low-quality video.

3 points only applies on a dribble. If she's holding the ball and the only part touching is in the frontcourt, the ball has frontcourt status.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Rich

3 points only applies on a dribble. If she's holding the ball and the only part touching is in the frontcourt, the ball has frontcourt status.

I do not ever see her holding the ball in the video.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bucky

I do not ever see her holding the ball in the video.

How does she pass the ball? At that moment the dribble's ended and the ball has frontcourt status assuming the only thing touching is in the frontcourt.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bucky

I do not ever see her holding the ball in the video.

She ended the dribble. A foot in FC the other in air. That means ball has FC status.

$2 fine for Bucky.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Rich

How does she pass the ball? At that moment the dribble's ended and the ball has frontcourt status assuming the only thing touching is in the frontcourt.

The way she passes the ball is more like she's continuing to dribble, but then decides to send the "next dribble" as the pass. She never really ended her dribble, and the ball never gains FC status IMO.

What if, instead of passing, the next dribble had hit the floor in the BC? Then what would you have?

[Rich]

She ended the dribble when she passed the ball. Definitions matter.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Rich

She ended the dribble when she passed the ball. Definitions matter.

Yes, they do. And if you look at the rule about when a dribble ends, 4-15-4, there are 5 different ways the dribble can end. Passing the ball is not one of them, and none of the criteria listed are met in this video.

[Rich]

I disagree. She did more than push the ball in that direction.

We'll disagree, I guess, but now it's a matter of judgment.

[frezer11]

In the situation of a one handed pass off of a dribble, at what point does the dribble end? I don't have a rulebook in front of me, but unless there is a definition that specifically states otherwise, I would think that a dribble ends when it can no longer be dribbled legally, such as when grabbed by both hands, or the passing hand goes under the ball such that a subsequent dribble would be called a carry. In the video, at the last possible instant, if the passer decided to instead continue dribbling, I think she legally could have, therefore, I would think the dribble doesn't actually end until it leaves her hand. So it had backcourt status due to the dribbling exception, it then leaves her hand causing the dribble to end with the ball still having backcourt status, and is retrieved by a teammate in the backcourt. Thoughts on that reasoning?

EDIT: You guys pretty much summarized what I was thinking-

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Which of the 5 criteria in the book would you say were met in order to determine that she ended her dribble?