Backcourt violation?

[ChuckElias]

Ok, here's a play that someone mentioned to me and I wanted opinions. A1 is holding the ball in his frontcourt near the midcourt line. The referee is standing nearby and is straddling the midcourt line; one foot in the frontcourt, one foot in the backcourt. A1 pivots and steps on the ref's "frontcourt" foot.

Is this a backcourt violation, just as if the official were straddling the OOB line? I think so.

But here's the tricky twist. What if we change it so that it's not the referee straddling the line, but another player instead? Is it still a backcourt violation? Because now, the OOB analogy doesn't work. It's not a violation to touch another player who is OOB while holding the ball. In that case, it's only a violation for the ball to touch the player who is OOB. So is it a backcourt violation to touch a player who is in the backcourt while holding the ball?

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, here's a play that someone mentioned to me and I wanted opinions. A1 is holding the ball in his frontcourt near the midcourt line. The referee is standing nearby and is straddling the midcourt line; one foot in the frontcourt, one foot in the backcourt. A1 pivots and steps on the ref's "frontcourt" foot.

Is this a backcourt violation, just as if the official were straddling the OOB line? I think so.

But here's the tricky twist. What if we change it so that it's not the referee straddling the line, but another player instead? Is it still a backcourt violation? Because now, the OOB analogy doesn't work. It's not a violation to touch another player who is OOB while holding the ball. In that case, it's only a violation for the ball to touch the player who is OOB. So is it a backcourt violation to touch a player who is in the backcourt while holding the ball?

I'm not calling B/C violation on either one.

The second one is easy for the reason you said. It isn't an out-of-bounds on a player for touching an out-of-bounds player so it would seem logical that it would apply to B/C as well.

The second is is tougher, but I don't see where the rulebook says that an official who is straddling the H/C line is in B/C. An official isn't a player so I don't think player location applies.

[rockyroad]

The official is part of the court...so if they step on my frontcourt foot, that's part of the frontcourt. No b/c call there...now, depending on how heavy the player is and how good a stomp they get on my little piggies, I might just go ahead and blow the whistle really loud right in their ear just to pay them back, but that would be an inadvertant whistle and they'd get the ball back...

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

I'm not penalizing a kid because I'm stupid enough to be out of position.

[deecee]

not to sound like an a$$ but this probably will come off as such. how do you or the people you know come up with these I mean really talk about absurd. Out of curiosity why is said official breathing down the players neck where when he pivots he hits his foot? instead of penalizing any team I think this ref should be hit with a T and flogged by rosie o'donnel

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by deecee

not to sound like an a$$

Too late.

how do you or the people you know come up with these

This was asked by a student in our New Applicants' Class.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The official is part of the court...so if they step on my frontcourt foot, that's part of the frontcourt. No b/c call there.

I'm with Rocky. Sounds logical to me...and it can also be defended(vaguely) by rule, if necessary.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

[QUOTE=rockyroad]The official is part of the court...QUOTE]

Which court is the official part of...if the official landed stadling the line, did he lift his backcourt foot...or maybe his frontcourt foot...or maybe he was dribbling at the time, in which case we should determine whether all three points entered the frontcourt...of course he could have come from OB, which further complicates things...

[crazy voyager]

I have played in a game, it was decided simply. With 6 seconds left we threw a long pass to do a fast break. THe official steps in the way, gets the ball on him and it goes OOB. Other teams ball, we lose by one.

Officals can surley be out of position

[rockyroad]

[QUOTE=Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The official is part of the court...QUOTE]

Which court is the official part of...if the official landed stadling the line, did he lift his backcourt foot...or maybe his frontcourt foot...or maybe he was dribbling at the time, in which case we should determine whether all three points entered the frontcourt...of course he could have come from OB, which further complicates things...

Well, if the official in question is M&M Guy then we would have to make sure that all SIX point were across half-court...his two legs and the 4 legs of the walker he uses!!

Budump-bump ching!!

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

Well, if the official in question is M&M Guy then we would have to make sure that all SIX point were across half-court...his two legs and the 4 legs of the walker he uses!!

You'd have to use the Seven-Point rule if the official was Ron Jeremy.

Wait a minute.....

The rule only references things that touch the floor. Seven feet in the air doesn't count.

Nevermind.....

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

Officals can surley be out of position

Yes, they can. But don't call me Shirley.

[ChuckElias]

So the consensus is that both situations are legal? Even tho the person is touching in the backcourt in both cases? If the ref is part of the floor, and is touching the backcourt, doesn't that make him in the backcourt? I just want to have some good rationale before I go back to the class with an answer.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Well, if the official in question is M&M Guy then we would have to make sure that all SIX point were across half-court...his two legs and the 4 legs of the walker he uses!!

Budump-bump ching!!

Hey!

When I finally catch up to you I'm gonna stick one of those walker legs up your...er...hmm...in your case would it be down your...

Oh, never mind.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

So the consensus is that both situations are legal? Even tho the person is touching in the backcourt in both cases? If the ref is part of the floor, and is touching the backcourt, doesn't that make him in the backcourt? I just want to have some good rationale before I go back to the class with an answer.

Yes. Yes. Yes but only the part of the official that is actually touching the backcourt.

Your rationale is "What Would Woddy Do?"

or.....

The player's foot touched the part of the official located in the front court. Using the exact same logic, if he hadda stepped on the backcourt foot, the player woulda stepped in the backcourt.

Foot touching in the frontcourt = frontcourt; foot touching in the backcourt = backcourt.