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Old Tue Feb 07, 2017, 01:17pm
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Jump Ball - non-jumper position

I've had a few games where, prior to the jump ball, a partner asked a non-jumper to:
1) not stand behind the opponent, when the two players were at the top of the key.
2) not straddle the division line
3) do not move prior to the toss, when the player was not along the center circle

For #1, I think this only pertains to non-jumpers along the center restraining circle, specifically within 3 feet. There is a case on this, but where is this in the rule book?

For #2, phantom rule?

For #3, same thing as #1 I believe, only applies to players along center circle
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2017, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
I've had a few games where, prior to the jump ball, a partner asked a non-jumper to:
1) not stand behind the opponent, when the two players were at the top of the key.
2) not straddle the division line
3) do not move prior to the toss, when the player was not along the center circle

For #1, I think this only pertains to non-jumpers along the center restraining circle, specifically within 3 feet. There is a case on this, but where is this in the rule book?

For #2, phantom rule?

For #3, same thing as #1 I believe, only applies to players along center circle
6-3 is your jump ball stuff. When referee ready nobody can come on to the circle or change position on the circle. A player on the circle can always back straight off of it.

Players off the circle can't move onto it when referee ready to toss. ball has to be touched by jumper before anybody can break plane of circle or get into another players space around circle.

Good officials mix this up. need to read it often. 1 is not violation, 2 is not violation. 3. simply moving isn't a violation...
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2017, 01:37pm
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I've never even heard of the "don't straddle the division line" one. Now, I have heard of the other two things, but they aren't as simple as "don't do that". See BigCat's post above.
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2017, 03:58pm
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Phantom rules, all of them. depending on your rapport with your partner, you could address it at half-time. Unless he actually calls a violation, I wouldn't address it otherwise.

Some officials know these aren't rules but justify enforcing them in the name of "game management" or some other nebulous phrase that basically means "making sh1t up".
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2017, 04:11pm
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Myths ...

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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I've never even heard of the "don't straddle the division line" one.
Thirty-six years officiating for me, plus a lot more as a player, and as a coach, and this is a first for me too.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Hold your spots", said by the referee, or tosser, before the jump ball, is only rule based for some of the players. One exception to this rule, and there are others, is that players on the jump ball circle can move off the jump ball circle at any time: before the toss, during the toss, or after the toss.

"You can't stand behind him”, stated by the referee, or the umpire, before a jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle, is not rule based. The rule that players can’t stand behind, within three feet, of an opponent, only applies to players on, and within three feet of, the jump ball circle. Players farther back than that can stand wherever they want, as long as they get to that spot first.


Jump ball rules are difficult and complex. Before the toss. During the toss. After the toss. Jumper. On the circle. Off the circle. Jump ball ends.

Before the alternating possession arrow, when we had many, many jump balls per game, in three different jump ball circles, with all kinds of players being jumpers, officials knew the jump ball rules like the back of their hand. Now that we only (usually) have one jump ball in the game, many of us (including me) don't spend as much time reviewing these difficult and complex rules.

Get rid of the archaic jump ball. Just give the ball to the visitors to start the game.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 07, 2017 at 04:42pm.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 12:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thirty-six years officiating for me, plus a lot more as a player, and as a coach, and this is a first for me too.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Hold your spots", said by the referee, or tosser, before the jump ball, is only rule based for some of the players. One exception to this rule, and there are others, is that players on the jump ball circle can move off the jump ball circle at any time: before the toss, during the toss, or after the toss.

"You can't stand behind him, stated by the referee, or the umpire, before a jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle, is not rule based. The rule that players cant stand behind, within three feet, of an opponent, only applies to players on, and within three feet of, the jump ball circle. Players farther back than that can stand wherever they want, as long as they get to that spot first.


Jump ball rules are difficult and complex. Before the toss. During the toss. After the toss. Jumper. On the circle. Off the circle. Jump ball ends.

Before the alternating possession arrow, when we had many, many jump balls per game, in three different jump ball circles, with all kinds of players being jumpers, officials knew the jump ball rules like the back of their hand. Now that we only (usually) have one jump ball in the game, many of us (including me) don't spend as much time reviewing these difficult and complex rules.

Get rid of the archaic jump ball. Just give the ball to the visitors to start the game.

Bill:

Mark, Jr., and Andy keep telling that I am older than dirt, LOL!

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 09:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

Get rid of the archaic jump ball. Just give the ball to the visitors to start the game.
Then any overtime game becomes more of an administrative challenge as players/officials have even less experience with a jump ball. One jump ball to start the game (and another for the overtime period) seems just about right to me.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 09:46am
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I have to admit... the jump ball makes more sense in determining possession than the coin flip in football. Not that the XFL and it's "spring to the ball" thing was better.

But I'd be open to something other than a jump ball.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 04:46pm
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No Jump Ball ...

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Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
Then any overtime game becomes more of an administrative challenge ...
No jump ball, period. Start the overtime with the possession arrow, it's already pointing in one direction at the end of regulation. And no need to reverse the arrow (like at halftime) because the teams are going in the same direction as the second half.

The jump ball is beyond archaic, it's prehistoric.

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 06:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No jump ball, period. Start the overtime with the possession arrow, it's already pointing in one direction at the end of regulation. And no need to reverse the arrow (like at halftime) because the teams are going in the same direction as the second half.

The jump ball is beyond archaic, it's prehistoric.


Padgett and I resemble the remark. LOL

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 06:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I have to admit... the jump ball makes more sense in determining possession than the coin flip in football. Not that the XFL and it's "spring to the ball" thing was better.

But I'd be open to something other than a jump ball.
Really??? This was one of the 3 greatest things about the XFL, behind "He Hate Me," and the skycam. Loved the 30 for 30 btw, I eat that stuff up!!
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