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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 02, 2018, 12:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I hear what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree. However, if you consider it "completely unsportsmanlike", how do you handle the situation of the crowd counting down a clock prematurely in an effort to influence the opponent? Maybe not the same but that certainly seems "completely unsportsmanlike" also. NBD, it is an extreme analogy and I'm not busting your chops. Just a thought I had.
The crowd can boo me. The coach cannot.

The crowd can gesture at me. The coach cannot.

The crowd can try to disconcert a free throw shooter. The coach cannot.

The crowd can drink beer during a game. The coach cannot.

Etc.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 02, 2018, 12:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers View Post
The crowd can boo me. The coach cannot.

The crowd can gesture at me. The coach cannot.

The crowd can try to disconcert a free throw shooter. The coach cannot.

The crowd can drink beer during a game. The coach cannot.

Etc.
With the exception of drinking beer, which does not occur, technically, I am not seeing differences as far as unsporting conduct in your examples.

The crowd gesturing and disconcerting (term no longer used) are examples of unsporting conduct. Would you not agree?

NFHS Rule 2-8 art. 1

A player cannot display unsporting conduct.
A coach cannot display unsporting conduct.
A substitute cannot display unsporting conduct.
A team attendant cannot display unsporting conduct.
A team follower cannot display unsporting conduct.

Sure, there is a lengthy note, and I would not penalize a crowd for booing. My point is that it is another situation where there is unsporting conduct and it is not penalized by the officials as it is written by rule. Often times it can be too difficult to pinpoint offenders whereby a coach is easier. And we have the ability to penalize a coach at times when bench offenders cannot be singled out. Just not the same with a crowd.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 02, 2018, 12:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
The crowd gesturing and disconcerting (term no longer used) are examples of unsporting conduct. Would you not agree?
No. While disconcerting is against the rules, it isn't unsporting. If it were, the NFHS penalty for it (even on a player) would be a T. Gesturing may be unsporting depend on the gesture...just as words may or may not be unsporting.

Unsporting contact from a follower would be calling an opponent things that are in any way inappropriate (racist, etc.), coming onto the court to interfere with play or object to a call (just examples, not an exhaustive list), throwing things onto the court, etc.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 02, 2018, 02:27pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
No. While disconcerting is against the rules, it isn't unsporting. If it were, the NFHS penalty for it (even on a player) would be a T. Gesturing may be unsporting depend on the gesture...just as words may or may not be unsporting.

Unsporting contact from a follower would be calling an opponent things that are in any way inappropriate (racist, etc.), coming onto the court to interfere with play or object to a call (just examples, not an exhaustive list), throwing things onto the court, etc.
I get that. Among other things, it really comes down to one's definition of unsporting. But....

If a coach tells a ref very loudly where many can hear it, "you suck!", most refs would consider that unsporting and penalize accordingly. But if a spectator yells the same thing, refs do nothing. How can the same act be penalized at one point but not the other? That is my point as far as something that is by rule an infraction but yet refs, myself included, do not penalize it. Granted, it is a very minor/poor/exaggerated example.

Not looking for a debate, just being very technical/picky about something minor and a bit off topic.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 02, 2018, 04:17pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Talking Serenity Prayer

The difference is embodied the Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

Although probably not a sports official, Reinhold Niebuhr knew the difference between the acts of coaches and the conduct of spectators.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 03, 2018, 03:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I get that. Among other things, it really comes down to one's definition of unsporting. But....

If a coach tells a ref very loudly where many can hear it, "you suck!", most refs would consider that unsporting and penalize accordingly. But if a spectator yells the same thing, refs do nothing. How can the same act be penalized at one point but not the other? That is my point as far as something that is by rule an infraction but yet refs, myself included, do not penalize it. Granted, it is a very minor/poor/exaggerated example.

Not looking for a debate, just being very technical/picky about something minor and a bit off topic.
Agree...the threshold for unsporting does indeed vary based on the expectations of the various "participants". Some know better (or at least should) and are accountable for their actions to a greater degree.
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