Disagreement with Crew Partner

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Ok. Sorry. I took a shortcut and didn't read the middle pages...

No worries

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The OP says there was a bounce, a fall, a travel call and then the other guy running in. If he would have run in and said, "no way, obvious no LGP...Everybody in gym knows it.." .maybe ok. If it's that obvious the official who called the travel may say, "you're right." The guy ran in though and didn't say those things. He said body on floor. Need to have foul. He should pound sand.

That isn't having a foul before the travel. Imo. And if anybody botched I'd say forcefully "it was my call and I made it." Blue ball etc

We really don't know when the decisions were made. I often have partners beat me to the whistle on things. So, the timing of the whistle's may be a poor indicator. Maybe the L was watching the whole play before deciding and felt the bump that he was going to pass on initially caused the player to fall but his partner beat him to the whistle.

Either way, decisions as far as the rules go involve making calls, not making no call. If that were not the case, how would we ever reconcile two officials on a play where one makes a foul call and the other doesn't have a foul call. It would be an infinite loop of logic that just doesn't work. You would be forever stuck with one overruling the other's decision.

If I believe a player has LGP but my partner sees something that negates LGP that I didn't see and calls a block, the player likely didn't have LGP.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If I believe a player has LGP but my partner sees something that negates LGP that I didn't see and calls a block, the player likely didn't have LGP.

I agree, but if he runs in and tells me I'm calling a foul because we have a body on the floor as opposed to "that was a block..or I have a block" id send him away. I am trusting the OP's version of how it played out.

[MD Longhorn]

This ^^^ Exactly.

I think what's being missed is that the off-official did not rush in and say he had a block, or that the defender didn't have position. He came in an basically spewed forth words that are not found in the rulebook. "We have to have a foul, there's a body on the ground"... is not only untrue, it's NOT a reason to overturn the call.

It's like an official who rushes in to correct a 3 point basket to a 2 by stating that the shooter landed on the wrong side of the line. That's NOT the rule. And neither is his explanation of why to change the call in the OP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

This ^^^ Exactly.

I think what's being missed is that the off-official did not rush in and say he had a block, or that the defender didn't have position. He came in an basically spewed forth words that are not found in the rulebook. "We have to have a foul, there's a body on the ground"... is not only untrue, it's NOT a reason to overturn the call.

It's like an official who rushes in to correct a 3 point basket to a 2 by stating that the shooter landed on the wrong side of the line. That's NOT the rule. And neither is his explanation of why to change the call in the OP.

Go read the OP again. He did come in with a block call initially. The stuff about why was the after conversation. He may have been wrong in why he called it, but don't change the situation. The OP first tried to trump his partner's block call by claiming PCA. Then the partner responded with the (bad) reason he had a block. The OP should have never said a word about it being is primary when his partner came up with the block. The only conversation should have been about which even happened first, but that was obvious.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Sitch:

I am in the L position, and whistle with open-hand up, I did pause a half-a-beat to mentally digest the sitch before calling a travel on A1. Then, Partner comes running in with a whistle and calls a block on B1 (in a rather animated fashion).

Cameron, sure sounds like he called nothing until he decided he didn't like the L's travel.

His subsequent explanation tells me he was just making shit up, too.

If I'm the L, I'm not giving in to that nonsense.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

Cameron, sure sounds like he called nothing until he decided he didn't like the L's travel.

His subsequent explanation tells me he was just making shit up, too.

If I'm the L, I'm not giving in to that nonsense.

I guess it depends on how long the implied time was. I agree he was probably wrong in his judgement and certainly it seems so with his reason (I'd be the first to call him on that) but I'm not convinced the OP was any more right in how he handled it.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I guess it depends on how long the implied time was. I agree he was probably wrong in his judgement and certainly it seems so with his reason (I'd be the first to call him on that) but I'm not convinced the OP was any more right in how he handled it.

I read it the way Rich did. I think we accept OP as true. If that is how it happened, I do like OPs handling much more than his partner's.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I read it the way Rich did. I think we accept OP as true. If that is how it happened, I do like OPs handling much more than his partner's.

I know there are plenty of times where I've no-called what first appeared to be marginal or insignificant contact until I observed that it ultimately caused a travel or other disadvantage. I did this just 2-3 days ago. I caught heat from one coach for it but it was the right call.

The timing of his whistle, even if after the travel occurred, is not a problem for me. His judgement may well have been poor, or even completely wrong, but I don't think him making the call based on what he felt occurred was wrong since it clearly occurred first.

I do not like the OP telling his partner that it was his PCA as a way to justify his call was the correct call before the L said anything about it other than that he had a block before the travel and still insisted that his call, which clearly occurred second, was what they were going with. His action was worse than his partners IMO.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know there are plenty of times where I've no-called what first appeared to be marginal or insignificant contact until I observed that it ultimately caused a travel or other disadvantage. I did this just 2-3 days ago. I caught heat from one coach for it but it was the right call.

The timing of his whistle, even if after the travel occurred, is not a problem for me. His judgement may well have been poor, or even completely wrong, but I don't think him making the call based on what he felt occurred was wrong since it clearly occurred first.

I do not like the OP telling his partner that it was his PCA as a way to justify his call was the correct call before the L said anything about it other than that he had a block before the travel and still insisted that his call, which clearly occurred second, was what they were going with. His action was worse than his partners IMO.

If I thought I had a good look, saw the bounce, called travel and then his arm went up and he runs to me I would not say it's my PCA.Id say "what the hell are you doing?" Again, if he says no LGP and he thought I was having a block. Ok. But what he said, which I accept as true was "we have a body on floor and need foul to prevent drama." When I hear that it says to me he knows it wasn't a foul but it looked bad so need a foul call to prevent being yelled at.

As between the two I pick the OP. Just what I'd do..