Four questions

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-41: Shooting, Try, Tap
ART. 1 The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try
or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne
shooter.
ART. 2 A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three
points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal
when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or
attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand
as a foul could prevent release of the ball.
ART. 3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually
precedes the release of the ball.

Are we 100% certain that situation 1 and 2 do not represent trys?

When I catch the ball and start to raise it up to shoot or pass..and then defender hits my arm you as referee have to make judgment. Was I shooting or passing. If I start bringing ball up and mean to shoot or pass...but it slips out of my hand...it is a slip/fumble. It was going to be a try or pass but it ended up a "slip/fumble." Not a try

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

When I catch the ball and start to raise it up to shoot or pass..and then defender hits my arm you as referee have to make judgment. Was I shooting or passing. If I start bringing ball up and mean to shoot or pass...but it slips out of my hand...it is a slip/fumble. It was going to be a try or pass but it ended up a "slip/fumble." Not a try

Sounds good, but I'm still hung up on the word "attempt", both in sj's post, and in the written rule. sj is actually calling this a shot attempt. In sj's (an official) "judgment" the player is "attempting to throw for goal", words right there in Rule 4-41.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good, but I'm still hung up on the word "attempt", both in sj's post, and in the written rule. sj is actually calling this a shot attempt. In sj's (an official) "judgment" the player is "attempting to throw for goal", words right there in Rule 4-41.

He is "attempting" to try for goal. If he's fouled before ball slips give him 2. If the ball slips..he was "attempting" to try for goal but it is not a try. Slip. Attempting a try and bring a try are fifferent here....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Attempting a try and bring a try are different here....

4-41: Shooting, Try, Tap
ART. 1 The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try
or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne
shooter.
ART. 2 A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three
points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal
when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or
attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand
as a foul could prevent release of the ball.
ART. 3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually
precedes the release of the ball.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-41: Shooting, Try, Tap
ART. 1 The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try
or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne
shooter.
ART. 2 A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three
points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal
when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or
attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand
as a foul could prevent release of the ball.
ART. 3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually
precedes the release of the ball.

Let's try it this way. If I have the ball on offense, in the paint and jump with it I can make it look to you, the referee and the world, that I'm going to shoot it. I may be thinking pass the entire time. If I am fouled at that moment you have to make a judgment on whether I was attempting to shoot or not. If I'm not fouled you don't have to make that judgment yet. If instead of shooting it, I dump it down to A2 are you going to start the 3 count in lane over? No. I didn't shoot it, I passed it so team control continues.

In the OP the player starts up with the ball and it slips and flies backwards. If there's a foul while he is going up etc you have to make a judgment at that time as to what you think he was or wasn't doing. If there isn't a foul, wait and see what he does with the ball. If it slips and flies behind him it's a fumble. Team control continues. If he releases it and it looks like a try to you then that's what it is.

In summary--a fumble is a fumble. A try is a try....

[deecee]

We are paid the big bucks to determine if a player was passing or shooting. The expectation when a player goes airborne and it's towards the basket (or they are open and facing the basket) it's a shot attempt. 9999 out of 10000 times it's clear as day. I'm ok getting that 1 time wrong.

[BryanV21]

Some are comparing this to fouling situations, but is that right? The ruling for when a player is fouled (during a shot or not) is not necessarily the same as when a player fumbles the ball. Right?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

We are paid the big bucks to determine if a player was passing or shooting. The expectation when a player goes airborne and it's towards the basket (or they are open and facing the basket) it's a shot attempt. 9999 out of 10000 times it's clear as day. I'm ok getting that 1 time wrong.

What I am saying is that if a player is at the top of the key, goes up with ball and looks like he is going to shoot it, but the ball slips out of his hands and flies behind him that is not a try and a loss of team control. That's a fumble. If the ball went backward into the BC and offense was first to touch it i would call BC violation. He was going to shoot it but he didn't get a shot off. it slipped. I watch the whole play. Just because he started a motion upward with the ball that could be interpreted as a shot doesn't mean that everything that follows IS a shot/try, imo. The ball in the OP was fumbled backwards. I don't call that a try and thus a loss of team control. thx