Questions? Second Set

[edred]

Thanks for all the help on the last set of questions. I never thought that stepping on the line would cause so much discussion. I take the test this Sunday and have a few more questions. Thanks for the help.

1. A1 and A2 on a fast break, B1 is guarding A1, A2 is in from of them both, A1 passes to A2 for a lay-up B1 fouls A1 in a valid attempt at the ball, pass is completed and A2 makes the lay-up can the official hold the whistle until the play is completed?

2. A1 has ball for AP throw in, on throw in B1 kicks ball and violates, official gives A1 the ball and instructs the scorer not to change the AP Arrow when the ball is touched in bounds is the official correct?

3. A1’s free throw only hits the backboard, hitting the backboard end a free throw, the official calls a violation is he correct?

4. A1 throws ball in bounds from their offensive end line, ball is caught by A2 at mid court but A2’s feet don’t land at the same time, front court then back court, official call BC violation is he correct.

5. A1 throws ball in bounds from their defensive end line, ball is caught by A2 at mid court but A2’s feet don’t land at the same time, front court then back court, official call BC violation is he correct.

6. A1 throws ball in bounds from side line, ball is caught by A2 at mid court but A2’s feet don’t land at the same time, front court then back court, official call BC violation is he correct.

7. A1-while dribbling intentionally pushed B1, official call a player control foul is the official correct?

8. Following a field goal and prior to the throw in starting, A1 fouls B1, official calls a personal foul is the official correct?

9. A1 requests an excessive Timeout official grants time out and charges A1 with a technical foul is the official correct?

10. Before the overtime is started A1 requests an excessive timeout official grants time out and charges team A with a technical foul is the official correct?

My answers
1. N
2. Y
3. Y
4. N
5. N
6. N
7. Y
8. Y
9. N
10. Y

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by edred
2. A1 has ball for AP throw in, on throw in B1 kicks ball and violates, official gives A1 the ball and instructs the scorer not to change the AP Arrow when the ball is touched in bounds is the official correct?

7. A1-while dribbling intentionally pushed B1, official call a player control foul is the official correct?

8. Following a field goal and prior to the throw in starting, A1 fouls B1, official calls a personal foul is the official correct?

2. Poorly written, but has the first throw-in ended? Is the second throw-in an AP throw-in?

7., 8. -- Read 4-Fouls (4-19?)

[PAULK1]

7. if it is an intentional foul it can't be a PC foul
see 4-19-2 and 4-19-6

8 a technical foul for deadball contact or no call incidental contact during a deadball see4-19-5c and
4-19-1 note

10. can only grant excessive TO during regulation playing time or any extra period. see 5-12-2

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by PAULK1

10. can only grant excessive TO during regulation playing time or any extra period. see 5-12-2

Sorry, PaulK, that's not right. This play is directly out of the casebook and the official is correct.

[PAULK1]

actually it's 5.12.4 but you are right and I stand corrected thanks.

[Hawks Coach]

To be clear on 8, you are NOT going to call a T for contact during the time between the made basket and the ball at disposal unless you have some real T-able activity going on - normally you ignore this contact. It is incidental. If it continues after ball is at disposal, you have a foul.

This is similar to two players getting into a little bumping/pushing/holding match setting up for a throw-in before ball is at disposal. Just get them to stop, then give the ball to the inbounder. It has to be extreme to do something more than this.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
This is similar to two players getting into a little bumping/pushing/holding match setting up for a throw-in before ball is at disposal. Just get them to stop, then give the ball to the inbounder. It has to be extreme to do something more than this.

If the contact is considered a foul then it is technical. Contact while trying to get position is rarely, if ever, called a foul. It is incidental contact. Without reading into the questions #8 is a T.

1. Yes - This isn't a question someone gave you is it?
2. No - IMHO the contact, a kick, by a player should cause the arrow to change.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. No
6. Yes
7. No
8. No
9. Yes
10. Yes

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tomegun

If the contact is considered a foul then it is technical. Contact while trying to get position is rarely, if ever, called a foul. It is incidental contact. Without reading into the questions #8 is a T.

1. Yes - This isn't a question someone gave you is it?
2. No - IMHO the contact, a kick, by a player should cause the arrow to change.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. No
6. Yes
7. No
8. No
9. Yes
10. Yes

Under NFHS and NCAA rules, the official is correct in 3 and 10. The oficial might be correct in 2, depending on what the question is asking (the timing is confusing to me). The official is wrong in all the other situations

[tomegun]

Bob

1. According to the rules is No. What we practice a lot is Yes.
4. and 6. Can you give me a rule? Just for my clarification. I "thought" I read a rule about this being a violation on the offensive player while it wouldn't be for the defense.
9. I looked at the wording again and I agree with you. Hopefully the part that is we are both seeing that is wrong is charging the T to a player?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tomegun
1. According to the rules is No. What we practice a lot is Yes.

Tommy, I don't think you can hold the whistle on this play. You either have to call it immediately, if the contact really warrents it, or let it go completely and let A1 finish his play to the basket.

What you can't do, in my opinion, is wait on the whistle to see if A1 makes the basket; and then if he misses, make the call. That's too late.

[tomegun]

I'm not going to wait to see if he makes the basket. I'm talking about the pass getting to where he/she intended it to go. More importantly, in this play, is the pass getting to a teammate with a clear path to the basket. If it is of the opinion on this board to make this call that is fine and I understand completely. But, for the reasons above I have been told differently by mentors who I trust and most of us have seen on TV on Saturdays. If this contact is hard or intentional the call must be made for the sake of the game. That is all I meant by my previous post.

[ChuckElias]

Ok, Tommy, I can live with that. I was thinking that you were saying to let A1 have his shot at the basket and if he misses then call the foul on B1. That's what I envisioned by holding the whistle "until the play is completed".

I agree that you can wait to see if the contact caused A1's pass to be errant.

[Hawks Coach]

To be clear on #2. I assume we are talking about a ball that is kicked when the ball is thrown. If the ball is released on the throw-in, the throw-in has ended, arrow switches, and the violation happens subsequent to the end of the throw-in. If the ball is kicked before the throwi-in has ended, then the ball was in the hands of the inbounder and it is an automatic T, arrow would not switch.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tomegun
Bob

1. According to the rules is No. What we practice a lot is Yes.

IF this was a "coach cursing an official", then we'd withhold the whistle until after the play, and then call the T. I'm assuming that "play" in the question means the same thing as "play" in the casebook where the coach curses, or a player is injured -- until the team in control tries for goal, or stops advancing the ball.

Also, note that the foul wasn't committed on the shooter, it was committed on the passer. If the foul was committed on the shooter, we'd have a more patient whistle.

4. and 6. Can you give me a rule? Just for my clarification. I "thought" I read a rule about this being a violation on the offensive player while it wouldn't be for the defense.

9-9, iirc.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
To be clear on #2. I assume we are talking about a ball that is kicked when the ball is thrown. If the ball is released on the throw-in, the throw-in has ended, arrow switches, and the violation happens subsequent to the end of the throw-in. If the ball is kicked before the throwi-in has ended, then the ball was in the hands of the inbounder and it is an automatic T, arrow would not switch.

I agree with you.

Chuck, I agree with you too.

Bob, I don't agree but that is OK. This is the way I've been taught and some of those lessons shouldn't be repeated in church if you know what I mean. If you can envision B1 slapping A1 on the arm as A1 is passing the ball to A2. While the pass is in the air the whistle blows. A split second later A2 has the ball shooting an uncontested layup. Why? If the foul was hard or intentional I agree with the whistle. If the ball goes out of bounds as a result of the contact I agree with the whistle. If the ball gets to the intended target and the contact was not hard or intentional I think you should let the team attempt the wide open shot.