Four questions

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It's June, and I'm far away from being in "rules mode," but I wouldn't cite 4.44B for 1 and 2. In those plays above the ball is clearly slipping out of the shooter's hands. They are not "trys" under the rules so team control is not lost. 4.44 B allows the player to run and recover a "try", dribble etc because player and team control is lost. That is the basis of that play. So I think it is different than what we see in the OP 1 and 2.

Again, I'm not in rules mode and I know one of the arguments is that when a player jumps to shoot there's language saying he must shoot or pass etc. (he can also call timeout). The play id cite is the one where the player ends his dribble and fumbles it away. He is allowed to go retrieve it. We know that when I end a dribble I'm supposed to pivot, shoot or pass etc.(timeout also). That case play allows the player to go get the ball if it was actually "fumbled." accidental loss of player control.

If the ball slips out of the shooters hands and goes backward---truly a "fumble" ACCIDENTAL why would we not let him go retrieve it? The player who ends the dribble isn't supposed to be able to move the ball to another location on court by himself but we allow it if it was accidental/fumble. Why treat the shooter differently? If it is truly a fumble/accidental. Personally, I'm thinking the ACCIDENTAL nature of the loss of player control is the key not whether the player has ended the dribble or is shooting.

Anyway, this is off top of my head. There may be other plays that i'm not thinking of or interps etc. thx

I can't completely disagree with your logic, nor would I fault an official for allowing this (BTW if my partner allows this in a game and I am in the same position I would follow his/her lead). However, with that being said and airborne shooter is only "allowed" 2 actions (shoot or pass) otherwise we have a violation.

Since the rulebook treats a player who has gone airborne very differently I do not see why the concept for a player who has not gone airborne and loses the ball "fumble" would apply.

In all honesty at the varsity level or above a player going for a shot isn't just going to lose control as described so I dont really have to worry about this. I may expect this at a lower level of play like middle school or lower.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

I can't completely disagree with your logic, nor would I fault an official for allowing this (BTW if my partner allows this in a game and I am in the same position I would follow his/her lead). However, with that being said and airborne shooter is only "allowed" 2 actions (shoot or pass) otherwise we have a violation.

Since the rulebook treats a player who has gone airborne very differently I do not see why the concept for a player who has not gone airborne and loses the ball "fumble" would apply.

In all honesty at the varsity level or above a player going for a shot isn't just going to lose control as described so I dont really have to worry about this. I may expect this at a lower level of play like middle school or lower.

Obviously a player ending dribble, standing on floor etc is physically different from shooting a basketball. I think that's not the right focus. The player on ground has rules that do not allow him to move the ball from location to another without someone else touching, shooting etc. He's allowed to go from point A to B if he fumbles the ball. Again, why apply it differently? The physical acts are different but both are Accidental/fumble losses of control. When I have time I will search Jurassic posts. RIP Jurassic