Technicals

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I've coached in youth leagues where I've also officiated, so this isn't really a far fetched scenario. I'm going to assume that he was being honest about actually being an official. Put yourself in the position of the assistant...you're taking over for a coach that has gotten tossed partly because a newbie kicked a rule and turned a simple T into a train wreck...would you say anything? I think I would. Not to be a dick...the official obviously has a low threshold at this point...but to maybe try to gain a little credibility with the official. I don't think the assistant was being irresponsible...in the end, he was correct.

OK, who on here takes it well when a coach says "I'm ref and . . ." ?!?! And take that coach more seriously after he says it?!?! Anyone? Anyone?

If you think, immediately after the head coach was tossed, the asst coach was trying to be helpful, I have some great ocean front property in North Dakota that I can give you a great deal on . . .

And I don't think our OP really "kicked a rule," so much as he was sloppy in how he talked to the coach. As I read the scenario, he was just trying to tell the coach the conversation was over, and did it poorly. The coach used it as an excuse to act like a toddler.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

OK, who on here takes it well when a coach says "I'm ref and . . ." ?!?! And take that coach more seriously after he says it?!?! Anyone? Anyone?

If you think, immediately after the head coach was tossed, the asst coach was trying to be helpful, I have some great ocean front property in North Dakota that I can give you a great deal on . . .

And I don't think our OP really "kicked a rule," so much as he was sloppy in how he talked to the coach. As I read the scenario, he was just trying to tell the coach the conversation was over, and did it poorly. The coach used it as an excuse to act like a toddler.

Oh, I take it great. Rarely do I ever get a comment which gives my the green light to say whatever is on my mind.

[tankmjg24]

To answer a few questions, I am not sure what rule set we were technically playing by. The rules sheet on site did not specify, so we treated it like NFHS. The gym we were playing at was a college rec gym that did not have coaching boxes marked. The coach was for sure out of the box if there was one there, and I was trying to tell him to back off so I did not have to give the technical. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but he was pushing the max and was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us. I am not going to have a coach tell me what I cannot and can do, and for sure am not going to be told how horrible I am. The assistant was not trying to be helpful. You had to have been there to have a feel for the situation.

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

To answer a few questions, I am not sure what rule set we were technically playing by. The rules sheet on site did not specify, so we treated it like NFHS. The gym we were playing at was a college rec gym that did not have coaching boxes marked. The coach was for sure out of the box if there was one there, and I was trying to tell him to back off so I did not have to give the technical. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but he was pushing the max and was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us. I am not going to have a coach tell me what I cannot and can do, and for sure am not going to be told how horrible I am. The assistant was not trying to be helpful. You had to have been there to have a feel for the situation.

Sounds like you had way more reason to whack him than by enforcing the nonexistent coaching box. Personal, public, profane, or prolonged.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

To answer a few questions, I am not sure what rule set we were technically playing by. The rules sheet on site did not specify, so we treated it like NFHS. The gym we were playing at was a college rec gym that did not have coaching boxes marked. The coach was for sure out of the box if there was one there, and I was trying to tell him to back off so I did not have to give the technical. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but he was pushing the max and was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us. I am not going to have a coach tell me what I cannot and can do, and for sure am not going to be told how horrible I am. The assistant was not trying to be helpful. You had to have been there to have a feel for the situation.

When the coach is teetering on a T I usually just say "I've heard enough" or "lets move on" - I have even used once or twice with coaches "another word on this and it's costing you 2 FT's" which is pretty direct. I try not to treat them like kids, even though they act like it often.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by deecee

I have even used once or twice with coaches "another word on this and it's costing you 2 FT's" which is pretty direct.

I'd suggest avoiding this. IMHO, you never want to back yourself in by saying what you will do, especially in the context of an ultimatum. YMMV.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

To answer a few questions, I am not sure what rule set we were technically playing by. The rules sheet on site did not specify, so we treated it like NFHS. The gym we were playing at was a college rec gym that did not have coaching boxes marked. The coach was for sure out of the box if there was one there, and I was trying to tell him to back off so I did not have to give the technical. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but he was pushing the max and was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us. I am not going to have a coach tell me what I cannot and can do, and for sure am not going to be told how horrible I am. The assistant was not trying to be helpful. You had to have been there to have a feel for the situation.

'was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us"

So, there's the problem, really.

"Knock it off." "That's enough."

Then whack him. No reason to not whack him there.

If I had a person say, "I'm a referee..." I'd stop him and ask why he isn't keeping the HC in check.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

To answer a few questions, I am not sure what rule set we were technically playing by. The rules sheet on site did not specify, so we treated it like NFHS. The gym we were playing at was a college rec gym that did not have coaching boxes marked. The coach was for sure out of the box if there was one there, and I was trying to tell him to back off so I did not have to give the technical. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but he was pushing the max and was also screaming at me with an opposing player between us. I am not going to have a coach tell me what I cannot and can do, and for sure am not going to be told how horrible I am. The assistant was not trying to be helpful. You had to have been there to have a feel for the situation.

"You're horrible" = Wack. I'm never giving any sort of warning whatsoever for this behavior.

"screaming" at me = Most likely - Wack.

When a coach starts telling me what I can and can't do they've probably entered the realm of being a shitty coach. They don't get my attention anymore. To be fair, most coaches are pretty bad. Even at a high level I'm dumbfounded, often.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Dad

Oh, I take it great. Rarely do I ever get a comment which gives my the green light to say whatever is on my mind.

Dammit, there went my coffee all over my keyboard . . .

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Rich

Exactly. Whack him and then tell him to sit down.

+1!!!

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

And I don't think our OP really "kicked a rule," so much as he was sloppy in how he talked to the coach. As I read the scenario, he was just trying to tell the coach the conversation was over, and did it poorly. The coach used it as an excuse to act like a toddler.

Bingo here as well. It's all in the presentation. You can tell a coach that the conversation is over and he either needs to sit down or go find someone else to talk to. He can take that advice or he can continue his banter and get whacked.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

You can tell a coach that the conversation is over and he either needs to sit down or go find someone else to talk to.

One can certainly tell a coach that the conversation is over. And one can certainly tell a coach to talk to someone else other than the official.

However, assuming that the coach has not earned a direct, or indirect, technical foul, and assuming that the coaching box rule is in effect (i.e., no seatbelt rule), "sit down" should never enter the conversation.

If needed, he can be "whacked" just as easily standing up as sitting down, and then he can be invited to take a seat on the bench, or if needed, to go sit on the bus with the bus driver.

[BigT]

Someone here showed me Verbal Judo. If you are having issues at least once a week with feelings of unhappiness with anyone at your games it is going to make you a much happier person/referee.

Every coach is going to fight for calls. IMO every coach falls into two categories.

He will respectfully ask you what you saw with appropriate questions and sometimes respectfully ask you to watch for some behavior.

Or he is going to treat you like poop.

Usually happens pretty early and I would avoid warning him all night.

When he makes a scene or tells you what really happens I say "coach stop".

Then chooses to escalate and get a cup a T or he understands you are not going to take it from him tonight and he coaches.

If he starts coaches you .. I like say.. Coach please coach your kids not me, if you have a respectful question or respectfully ask us to watch something we will discuss it and look for it.

We have all said things we shouldnt say to coaches. Can you learn from it. Can you forgive yourself and find a way that will make you both happier?

Yes these guys are great giving advice. You can practice all kinds of things.

At some point you have to trust yourself that you are trying to do a good job, enjoy the kids and your partners and ignore those who are bias. Get feedback from the right people and work on your game that will help you enjoy yourself and this great ad-vocation.

Last but not least... the calmer you are when you T a coach the more satisfying it is...

Take a deep breath server the T and walk away. Everyone there can see he deserved it. Stay away from his AC and the table.

I really appreciate you bringing your story here and I hope you learned a ton. PM if I can help and I highly suggest the book for not only handling coaches but every person who is a having a bad day in your life and you need to manage it.