Five Second, while holding in college

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Who is they? College guys I work with properly count, as do I.

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Did you see the OP and the video?
"They" are the officials in the video and referenced in the OP... The L should have a count sometime before the 12 seconds lapsed. Heck, the defender is wondering what he has to do - so he puts his hand on the offensive player...

What possible justification could there be for this?
Allowing him to hold for five and then starting the count would be wrong; but 12 seconds and no count is just... goofy!

[Nevadaref]

Notice there's still no admission from Rut that he was dead wrong.
He's running his playbook: Dodge the question, change the topic, point a finger elsewhere, do anything to distract people from the fact at hand.

It is crystal clear that his ego just can't take it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Notice there's still no admission from Rut that he was dead wrong. He's running his playbook: Dodge the question, change the topic, point a finger elsewhere, do anything to distract people from the fact at hand.

JRutledge: You've read the other posts, so what's your answer for NCAA Women closely guarded (holding only, frontcourt only), three feet, or six feet?

If you were indeed mistaken, there's nothing wrong with making a mistake. We all make them. I make a lot of them.

It's real easy to correct a mistake. Just say, "I made a mistake", amend the mistake, and move on. There's no shame in that.

We can all learn from our own mistakes, and from the mistakes of others, especially when we get the error corrected.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

JRutledge: You've read the other posts, so what's your answer for NCAA Women closely guarded (holding only, frontcourt only), three feet, or six feet?

If you were indeed mistaken, there's nothing wrong with making a mistake. We all make them. I make a lot of them.

It's real easy to correct a mistake. Just say, "I made a mistake", amend the mistake, and move on. There's no shame in that.

We can can learn from our own mistakes, and from the mistakes of others, especially when we get the error corrected.

I do not work women's college basketball, but it used to be 3 feet. The rulebooks are separate, but if you read Jet's post, it was IMO obvious what he was saying. He works women's basketball, I do not.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

... it's the same in NCAAW and NCAAM as of this season: six feet only when holding the ball in the frontcourt.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if you read Jet's post, it was IMO obvious what he was saying.

Very obvious. NCAA Women, and NCAA Men, are the same. Six feet. Holding. Frontcourt.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

Also, very obvious. NCAA Women. Three feet.

Both clear. Both obvious. Both easy to understand. Both can't be correct. One must be incorrect.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Very obvious. NCAA Women, and NCAA Men, are the same. Six feet. Holding. Frontcourt.



Also, very obvious. NCAA Women. Three feet.

Both clear. Both obvious. Both easy to understand. Both can't be correct. One must be incorrect.

Billy, he's never going to say he was wrong. Better to just leave it alone.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Very obvious. NCAA Women, and NCAA Men, are the same. Six feet. Holding. Frontcourt.

Billy, we (NCAAW) were three feet/holding anywhere on the court for a few seasons until 2013-14. The rules committee changed to six feet/frontcourt only that season and gave the following rationale:

With the adoption of the 10-second back court violation count, there was no need for a closely guarded count on a hold in the back court. In addition, extending the closely guarded distance from 3 feet to 6 feet will encourage defenders to not have to guard the ball handler so closely which should decrease contact on the dribbler.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The biggest reason I don't use the "not closely guarded signal"? I am 64 years old and it takes energy to have to hold my arms out and that is energy that I can use to "run" up and down the court, .

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Very obvious. NCAA Women, and NCAA Men, are the same. Six feet. Holding. Frontcourt.



Also, very obvious. NCAA Women. Three feet.

Both clear. Both obvious. Both easy to understand. Both can't be correct. One must be incorrect.

A couple things. I said that Jet's post was clear. It was. He knows women's rules. He spoke on the topic he has made it very clear he knows and does on a regular basis. I never disagreed with his post or said he was wrong or said my post was right either. Actually I did not even see his post when I responded to you the first time. I never even suggested I was right. I said what I knew the rule to be and Jet made is position very clear. I said nothing and basically have been ignoring you because you tend to major in the minors a lot on this site and seemingly in your officiating, so I left it alone. If you do not trust Jet on his knowledge of women's basketball, then you really have not been paying attention to his posts for some time now. He often is spot on with what is going on at that level from what supervisors say and what that level focuses on. I work Men's college and usually my games are after the women's games. I tend to not watch them often as I am worried about my games, I know those rules and have to adjudicate those rules on the men's side. I know of many of the differences, but not all of them. That is why I said to you, Jet's post was clear. But as usual that was not good enough for you as usual. I am surprised you did post a silly picture that you found on the internet when you can not only look up these rules on the NCAA website, but you can look in the back of your own rulebook and see the differences. If everything has to be spelled out for you, well then that is why many other questions you have never get answered.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I never disagreed with his post or said he was wrong or said my post was right either.

Disagreed? Literally, true. Wrong? Literally, true. Those words were never posted.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

This post (above) was in direct opposition to JetMetFan's post.

One post was in error. Maybe it should have been acknowledged by the poster as being incorrect, once said poster realized that he was wrong. That's what I, and many other Forum members would have done.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... when you can not only look up these rules on the NCAA website, but you can look in the back of your own rulebook and see the differences.

True, but I've also got a great resource here on the Forum, often getting a reliable answer in a matter of minutes.

I initially believed JRutledge's post (three feet) to be true because we use three feet for girls prep school games here in Connecticut.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Notice there's still no admission from Rut that he was dead wrong.
He's running his playbook: Dodge the question, change the topic, point a finger elsewhere, do anything to distract people from the fact at hand.

It is crystal clear that his ego just can't take it.

There is nothing to admit dumbazz. I do not work women's college basketball.
How you like them apples. I don't have to like someone I know.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Did you see the OP and the video?
"They" are the officials in the video and referenced in the OP... The L should have a count sometime before the 12 seconds lapsed. Heck, the defender is wondering what he has to do - so he puts his hand on the offensive player...

What possible justification could there be for this?
Allowing him to hold for five and then starting the count would be wrong; but 12 seconds and no count is just... goofy!

Who justified it? You're painting all college officials with a broad brush based on one official. What does that one official have to do with me and other officials who do it properly?

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder concerning college officials.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Who justified it? You're painting all college officials with a broad brush based on one official. What does that one official have to do with me and other officials who do it properly?

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder concerning college officials.

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He is probably like a lot of people here. When they see a college official do something, they lump them all together. But if high school only official does something, they are still working the righteous level. It is kind of funny if you ask me when I see a lot of individuals at the high school level cannot get a rule right, no one says, "Those darn high school officials just ignore the rules."

Peace

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He is probably like a lot of people here. When they see a college official do something, they lump them all together. But if high school only official does something, they are still working the righteous level. It is kind of funny if you ask me when I see a lot of individuals at the high school level cannot get a rule right, no one says, "Those darn high school officials just ignore the rules."

Peace

I don't know what you're talking about, and it sounds like you don't either...
Check the OP and watch the video and see what you think of the CG situation.
I love all basketball officials - even you man!