Five Second, while holding in college

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Three feet, or six feet, for closely guarded in men's college basketball?

Closely guarded dribbling, and holding; or just holding, in men's college basketball?

Billy, it's the same in NCAAW and NCAAM as of this season: six feet only when holding the ball in the frontcourt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Billy, it's the same in NCAAW and NCAAM as of this season: six feet only when holding the ball in the frontcourt.

Six feet for NCAA Women?

Was it ever three feet for holding for NCAA Women (or anybody, for that matter)?

Our prep school teams use hybrid NCAA/NFHS rules, and we've been told to call closely guarded for three feet, holding only, in the frontcourt, only for our girls prep games.

Are we in error?

Connecticut Girls Prep School: 5-second closely-guarded count (3 feet) applies only to player who is holding the ball in the frontcourt.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Six feet for NCAA Women?

Three feet for women.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's the same in NCAAW and NCAAM as of this season: six feet only when holding the ball in the frontcourt.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

Do I flip a coin? Phone a friend?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Do I flip a coin? Can I call a friend?

'

You obviously did not read or understand his post. It was very clear to me and others if you were not always trying to dissect something.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You obviously did not read or understand his post. It was very clear to me and others ...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

it's the same in NCAAW and NCAAM as of this season: six feet only when holding the ball in the frontcourt.

What's hard to understand about JetMetFan's post? What's not clear about JetMetFan's post? In regard to my questions about the distance for closely guarded in the college game, JetMetFan replies that, in both mens, and womens, college basketball, it's six feet, for holding, in the frontcourt. The "and" in his answer implied that it was the same for both gender rule sets.

As a high school only official, JRutledge's answer (three feet for women), and JetMetFan's answer (six feet for both men and women), confused me. Each individual post was clear, and easy to understand. One has to be correct, and one has to be incorrect. That's what confused me. Two different answers.

And now, I'm really confused:

Originally Posted by frezer11

6 feet for men's and women's.

Two for six feet? One for three feet? Who's an official ignorant in NCAA rules (namely me) to believe? Do I start a poll?

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What's hard to understand? What's not clear? In regard to my questions about the distance for closely guarded in the college game, JetMetFan replies that, in both mens, and womens, college basketball, it's six feet, for holding, in the frontcourt. The "and" in his answer implied that it was the same for both gender rule sets.

As a high school only official, JRutledge's answer (three feet for women), and JetMetFan's answer (six feet for both men and women), confused me.

And now, I'm really confused:



Two for six feet? One for three feet? Who's official ignorant in NCAA rules to believe?

Six feet holding only in NCAA men & women
Six feet holding or dribbling in NFHS

The OP shows a college player holding a ball closely guarded (within 2 ft.) for 12 seconds without ever even getting a count started. That's lazy, lack of knowledge or total disregard for a rule.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

'

You obviously did not read or understand his post. It was very clear to me and others if you were not always trying to dissect something.

What's clear is that you were flat out WRONG. Now do you have the manhood to admit it for once in your life or will we be subject to more double-speak?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What's clear is that you were flat out WRONG. Now do you have the manhood to admit it for once in your life or will we be subject to more double-speak?

Why don't you come out here and see what real manhood is? Because all that crap you love to talk would get you run out of here. Don't believe me, ask your friend from that way. Something tells me they would eat you alive.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What's clear is that you were flat out WRONG. Now do you have the manhood to admit it for once in your life or will we be subject to more double-speak?

Who really cares? Seriously.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

Peace

Nope. 6 feet for men's and women's.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three feet for women.

Peace

Changes made to NCAA Women's as of 2014 season.
The closely guarded rule in the frontcourt remains, however it has been changed to read, “A player holding the ball for five seconds with a defender not exceeding six feet will be a violation.” Previously, the defender had to be within three feet of the offensive player with the ball to force a five second violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Changes made to NCAA Women's as of 2014 season. The closely guarded rule in the frontcourt remains, however it has been changed to read, “A player holding the ball for five seconds with a defender not exceeding six feet will be a violation.” Previously, the defender had to be within three feet of the offensive player with the ball to force a five second violation.

Can I get a second?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

As someone who started officiating women's college basketball back in the "Ancient Days" (1974 to be exact), as well as being a USA Basketball Referee in the 1990s, I probably have more experience (time wise with the "Closely Guarded" rule of all five or six rules: NBCofUS&C, NAGWS, NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and FIBA, I will finally add my two cents to this thread.

The "Closely Guarded" rule found its way into the NFHS and NCAA Basketball Rules Books from two different directions: 1) NFHS and NCAA Men's from the NBCofUS&C rules set, while 2) the NCAA Women's from the NAGWS (which took it directly from the FIBA rules set) rules set.

I will address the easiest of the two first: NCAA Women's. The FIBA "Closely Guarded" rule has been the same for at least 42 years because the 1974-75 season was my first year officiating women's college basketball so my NAGWS books start with that school year. The rule was: Being guarded (within 3 feet) for five seconds while holding the ball anywhere on the court. NAGWS patterned its rules set on a combination of NBCof US&C and FIBA rules. Its "Closely Guarded" rule was exactly like FIBA's (which has as it distance as one meter) rule. FIBA did not have a 10 second rule for advancing the ball and therefore neither did NAGWS. When the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Committee was formed it adopted the NAGWS "Closely Guarded" rule. And that rule has been the same until the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Committee amended it to apply only in a team's front court and the distance was expanded to 6 feet, starting with the 2013-14 season.

Until this season the NFHS and NCAA Men's has always been the same. But how did both groups get to the same rule (prior to this season)? You don't want to ask, except that it started before the NBCofUS&C split into the NFHS and NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committees. But it goes back to days when the front court was divided into the mid-court and the fore-court, and one does not want to even ask about when the five second count was in effect. But it was fun back then and not so simple as it is today.

If I would basketball rules dictator for one day, I would write the "Closely Guarded" rule as such: a) five seconds, b) only holding the ball, and c) only in the Front Court.

So ends the history lesson.

MTD, Sr.